• The Peter Linz HP proof

    From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Aug 20 22:10:52 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    Simulating (at least partial) halt decider Ĥ.embedded_H
    either sees the repeating state of its input or not.

    If it cannot possibly see the repeating state of its
    input then we do know more about the halting problem
    proof than we ever knew before, that the counter-example
    input would be correctly decided as non-halting. We can
    see that it is non-halting even if Ĥ.embedded_H cannot.

    *From the bottom of page 319 has been adapted to this* https://www.liarparadox.org/Peter_Linz_HP_317-320.pdf

    Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.∞,
    Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
    (a) Ĥ copies its input ⟨Ĥ⟩
    (b) Ĥ invokes embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
    (c) embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩

    If Ĥ.embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ can see the repeating state then
    it will abort its simulation and correctly transition
    to Ĥ.qn on the basis that ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ cannot possibly reach
    its own simulated final halt state of ⟨Ĥ.qn⟩.

    Turing machine deciders only compute the mapping
    from their inputs...

    Thus the behavior of the input would overrule the
    behavior of Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ in this case. If this
    behavior cannot be overruled then that would seem
    to indicate that embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ cannot possibly
    see the repeating state.

    I can't know that Ĥ.embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ cannot possibly
    see the repeating state of its input until trying
    every category of possible ways and failing.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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  • From dbush@dbush.mobile@gmail.com to comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Aug 20 23:19:06 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 8/20/2025 11:10 PM, olcott wrote:
    Simulating (at least partial) halt decider Ĥ.embedded_H

    False. The proof starts with the assumption that H is a total halt decider:

    We assume the contrary, namely that there exists an algorithm,
    and consequently some Turing machine H, that solves the halting problem

    From there, through a series of truth-preserving operations, it is
    concluded that it is possible to construct Ĥ from total halt decider H
    to form a contradiction.
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