• Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated finalhalt state

    From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.logic,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c on Tue Nov 18 21:07:35 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.lang.c

    On 11/18/2025 8:53 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-19, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/18/2025 7:01 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-18, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/18/2025 3:21 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-18, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    If you ask a decider to determine if my
    sister's name is "Sally" and I don't tell
    it who I am then the information contained
    in the input is insufficient. This does not
    in any way limit computation itself.

    The problem is that UTM(D) can work out the fact that
    D halts. Why is it that UTM knows that D's sister's
    name is Sally, but H does not?


    UTM(D) is answering a different question.
    (a) It is not providing any answer at all.

    Well, of course, by "UTM" we mean a /decider/ that purely simulates:

    bool UTM(ptr P) {
    sim S = sim_create(P);
    sim_step_exhaustively(S);
    return true;
    }

    All deciders applied to D are tasked with answering exactly the same
    question.

    Pretending that a different question was asked is nonproductive;
    the answer will be interpreted to the original question.

    All the information needed to answer is positively contained in D.

    It is just too complex relative to H.


    What The F does UTM decide when DD calls UTM(DD)?

    That doesn't happen; DD calls HHH(DD).

    A diagonal functon set against UTM, call it DDUTM,
    cannot be decided by UTM(DDUTM).

    That call simply does not return.


    Yes, and the other one does return proving the
    whole point that I have been making for three
    years that everyone (besides Ben) was too damned
    dishonest to acknowledge has been true all along.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning" computable.
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  • From Kaz Kylheku@643-408-1753@kylheku.com to comp.theory,sci.logic,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c on Wed Nov 19 04:30:52 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.lang.c

    On 2025-11-19, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/18/2025 8:53 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-19, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/18/2025 7:01 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-18, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/18/2025 3:21 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-18, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    If you ask a decider to determine if my
    sister's name is "Sally" and I don't tell
    it who I am then the information contained
    in the input is insufficient. This does not
    in any way limit computation itself.

    The problem is that UTM(D) can work out the fact that
    D halts. Why is it that UTM knows that D's sister's
    name is Sally, but H does not?


    UTM(D) is answering a different question.
    (a) It is not providing any answer at all.

    Well, of course, by "UTM" we mean a /decider/ that purely simulates:

    bool UTM(ptr P) {
    sim S = sim_create(P);
    sim_step_exhaustively(S);
    return true;
    }

    All deciders applied to D are tasked with answering exactly the same
    question.

    Pretending that a different question was asked is nonproductive;
    the answer will be interpreted to the original question.

    All the information needed to answer is positively contained in D.

    It is just too complex relative to H.


    What The F does UTM decide when DD calls UTM(DD)?

    That doesn't happen; DD calls HHH(DD).

    A diagonal functon set against UTM, call it DDUTM,
    cannot be decided by UTM(DDUTM).

    That call simply does not return.


    Yes, and the other one does return proving the
    whole point that I have been making for three
    years that everyone (besides Ben) was too damned
    dishonest to acknowledge has been true all along.

    What "other one"? Is that referring to HHH(DD)?

    HHH(DD) returns; UTM(DDUTM) does not return.

    That's four functions; HHH isn't UTM; DD isn't DDUTM.

    HHH and DDUTM are unrelated; UTM and DD are unrelated.
    --
    TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
    Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
    Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca
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  • From Bonita Montero@Bonita.Montero@gmail.com to comp.theory,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Nov 25 16:20:32 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.lang.c

    Am 06.11.2025 um 21:48 schrieb olcott:
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own
    simulated final halt state.

    I am not going to talk about any non-nonsense of
    resuming a simulation after we already have this
    final answer.

    We just proved that the input to H(D) specifies
    non-halting. Anything beyond this is flogging a
    dead horse.


    news://news.eternal-september.org/20251104183329.967@kylheku.com

    On 11/4/2025 8:43 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:

    The whole point is that D simulated by H
    cannot possbly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement no matter what H does.

    Yes; this doesn't happen while H is running.

    So while H does /something/, no matter what H does,
    that D simulation won't reach the return statement.


    What you do is like thinking in circles before falling asleep.
    It never ends. You're gonna die with that for sure sooner or later.

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  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Nov 25 09:47:35 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.lang.c

    On 11/25/2025 9:20 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
    Am 06.11.2025 um 21:48 schrieb olcott:
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own
    simulated final halt state.

    I am not going to talk about any non-nonsense of
    resuming a simulation after we already have this
    final answer.

    We just proved that the input to H(D) specifies
    non-halting. Anything beyond this is flogging a
    dead horse.


    news://news.eternal-september.org/20251104183329.967@kylheku.com

    On 11/4/2025 8:43 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:

    The whole point is that D simulated by H
    cannot possbly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement no matter what H does.

    Yes; this doesn't happen while H is running.

    So while H does /something/, no matter what H does,
    that D simulation won't reach the return statement.


    What you do is like thinking in circles before falling asleep.
    It never ends. You're gonna die with that for sure sooner or later.


    I now have four different LLM AI models that prove
    that I am correct on the basis that they derive the
    proof steps that prove that I am correct.

    Even Kimi that was dead set against me now fully
    understands my new formal foundation for correct
    reasoning.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning" computable.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bonita Montero@Bonita.Montero@gmail.com to comp.theory,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Nov 25 16:50:45 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.lang.c

    Am 25.11.2025 um 16:47 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/25/2025 9:20 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
    What you do is like thinking in circles before falling asleep.
    It never ends. You're gonna die with that for sure sooner or later.


    I now have four different LLM AI models that prove
    that I am correct on the basis that they derive the
    proof steps that prove that I am correct.
    It don't matters if you're correct. There's no benefit in discussing
    such a theoretical topic for years. You won't even stop if everyone
    tells you're right.

    Even Kimi that was dead set against me now fully
    understands my new formal foundation for correct
    reasoning.


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  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Nov 25 11:37:27 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.lang.c

    On 11/25/25 10:47 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/25/2025 9:20 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
    Am 06.11.2025 um 21:48 schrieb olcott:
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own
    simulated final halt state.

    I am not going to talk about any non-nonsense of
    resuming a simulation after we already have this
    final answer.

    We just proved that the input to H(D) specifies
    non-halting. Anything beyond this is flogging a
    dead horse.


    news://news.eternal-september.org/20251104183329.967@kylheku.com

    On 11/4/2025 8:43 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:

    The whole point is that D simulated by H
    cannot possbly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement no matter what H does.

    Yes; this doesn't happen while H is running.

    So while H does /something/, no matter what H does,
    that D simulation won't reach the return statement.


    What you do is like thinking in circles before falling asleep.
    It never ends. You're gonna die with that for sure sooner or later.


    I now have four different LLM AI models that prove
    that I am correct on the basis that they derive the
    proof steps that prove that I am correct.

    Even Kimi that was dead set against me now fully
    understands my new formal foundation for correct
    reasoning.


    But they only "agree" with your arguement, because you LIE in that
    arguement that H CAN correctly determine the answer.

    Sorry, arguements based on LIES are just unsound, as you are proving
    that you are so fundamentally.

    All you are doing is proving that you are just an incredably stupid pathological liar that has no concept of what truth or logic actually is.

    That is why you believe your own lies, and reject the fact that people
    point out to you, as they don't match the lie of your definition of "truth".


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  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,comp.lang.c on Tue Nov 25 11:39:45 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.lang.c

    On 11/25/2025 11:29 AM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-06, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own
    simulated final halt state.

    It has been shown /wth code/ that D simulated by H reaches its return, possible even in your horribly incorrect program that fails to conform
    to the requirements for exploring the halting problem.


    news://news.eternal-september.org/20251104183329.967@kylheku.com
    On 11/4/2025 8:43 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:

    The whole point is that D simulated by H
    cannot possbly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement no matter what H does.

    Yes; this doesn't happen while H is running.

    So while H does /something/, no matter what H does,
    that D simulation won't reach the return statement.


    Until five people from comp.lang.c call you out
    on this they will remain in the loop
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning" computable.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,comp.lang.c on Tue Nov 25 13:18:14 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.lang.c

    On 11/25/2025 12:46 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-25, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/25/2025 11:42 AM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-06, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own
    simulated final halt state.

    It has been shown /wth code/ that D simulated by H reaches its return,

    Liar, Liar Pants on Fire !!!

    I made the code public; another person was able to build and get the
    same results.


    news://news.eternal-september.org/20251104183329.967@kylheku.com
    On 11/4/2025 8:43 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:

    The whole point is that D simulated by H
    cannot possbly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement no matter what H does.

    Yes; this doesn't happen while H is running.

    So while H does /something/, no matter what H does,
    that D simulation won't reach the return statement.



    news://news.eternal-september.org/20251104183329.967@kylheku.com
    On 11/4/2025 8:43 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:

    The whole point is that D simulated by H
    cannot possbly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement no matter what H does.

    Yes; this doesn't happen while H is running.

    So while H does /something/, no matter what H does,
    that D simulation won't reach the return statement.



    news://news.eternal-september.org/20251104183329.967@kylheku.com
    On 11/4/2025 8:43 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:

    The whole point is that D simulated by H
    cannot possbly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement no matter what H does.

    Yes; this doesn't happen while H is running.

    So while H does /something/, no matter what H does,
    that D simulation won't reach the return statement.



    news://news.eternal-september.org/20251104183329.967@kylheku.com
    On 11/4/2025 8:43 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:

    The whole point is that D simulated by H
    cannot possbly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement no matter what H does.

    Yes; this doesn't happen while H is running.

    So while H does /something/, no matter what H does,
    that D simulation won't reach the return statement.



    news://news.eternal-september.org/20251104183329.967@kylheku.com
    On 11/4/2025 8:43 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:

    The whole point is that D simulated by H
    cannot possbly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement no matter what H does.

    Yes; this doesn't happen while H is running.

    So while H does /something/, no matter what H does,
    that D simulation won't reach the return statement.

    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning" computable.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2