From Newsgroup: comp.lang.prolog

Hi,

The average Prologer in 2025:

Interview with an Emacs Enthusiast [Colorized] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urcL86UpqZc

What happens when a Prolog does a web server?

You end up with the PiLLoW framework,
with nonsense such as html//1 and print_html/1.
This is the worst "milestone" ever in Prolog.

https://cliplab.org/Software/pillow/pillow.html

Bye


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.prolog


I have the feeling people think that library(markup)
is there to read and process markup. Whereas its only
a fusion of html//1 and print_html/1 without the blocking
restriction and with some smarts to also support ASCII

escape output as well. In as far it doesn’t belong to
web 1.0, which deals more with static content. People
were limited to passively viewing content. It rather
belongs to web 2.0, and is substantially different

from prior Web technologies, although the notion is
challenged by Tim Berners-Lee original vision
of a collaborative medium.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

The average Prologer in 2025:

Interview with an Emacs Enthusiast [Colorized] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urcL86UpqZc

What happens when a Prolog does a web server?

You end up with the PiLLoW framework,
with nonsense such as html//1 and print_html/1.
This is the worst "milestone" ever in Prolog.

https://cliplab.org/Software/pillow/pillow.html

Bye

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.prolog


Just a note about x-markup.js here, interesting “electron” variant:

https://ridgeworks.github.io/clpBNR/CLP_BNR_Guide/CLP_BNR_Guide.html

But a little dry, could use some hydration? But I am really not
sure whether such topics can be discussed here, since for
web 1.0 its fine. Might belong to a topic of web 2.0 that

one might want a web page to incrementally appear,
similar like the browsers in 1995 were faced with slow
land lines and could progressively render a graphic image.

Now the delay is induced by workers doing some work

Mild Shock schrieb:

I have the feeling people think that library(markup)
is there to read and process markup. Whereas its only
a fusion of html//1 and print_html/1 without the blocking
restriction and with some smarts to also support ASCII

escape output as well. In as far it doesn’t belong to
web 1.0, which deals more with static content. People
were limited to passively viewing content. It rather
belongs to web 2.0, and is substantially different

from prior Web technologies, although the notion is
challenged by Tim Berners-Lee original vision
of a collaborative medium.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

The average Prologer in 2025:

Interview with an Emacs Enthusiast [Colorized]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urcL86UpqZc

What happens when a Prolog does a web server?

You end up with the PiLLoW framework,
with nonsense such as html//1 and print_html/1.
This is the worst "milestone" ever in Prolog.

https://cliplab.org/Software/pillow/pillow.html

Bye

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.prolog


Well there was this french philosophy professor
who showed me his orgmode. I told him I am only
interested in web 2.0. I guess the approach is
the same like 1995 where

graphic images had to be specially “compiled”
server side to be able to progressively render.
Basically storing different increments of the
same content on the server.

Hydration refers to various techniques reviving
the same idea but for text markup forms I guess.
Or you can also draw inspiration in the game DOOM,
and mess around with the

scrolling of web pages.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Just a note about x-markup.js here, interesting “electron” variant:

https://ridgeworks.github.io/clpBNR/CLP_BNR_Guide/CLP_BNR_Guide.html

But a little dry, could use some hydration? But I am really not
sure whether such topics can be discussed here, since for
web 1.0 its fine. Might belong to a topic of web 2.0 that

one might want a web page to incrementally appear,
similar like the browsers in 1995 were faced with slow
land lines and could progressively render a graphic image.

Now the delay is induced by workers doing some work

Mild Shock schrieb:

I have the feeling people think that library(markup)
is there to read and process markup. Whereas its only
a fusion of html//1 and print_html/1 without the blocking
restriction and with some smarts to also support ASCII

escape output as well. In as far it doesn’t belong to
web 1.0, which deals more with static content. People
were limited to passively viewing content. It rather
belongs to web 2.0, and is substantially different

from prior Web technologies, although the notion is
challenged by Tim Berners-Lee original vision
of a collaborative medium.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

The average Prologer in 2025:

Interview with an Emacs Enthusiast [Colorized]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urcL86UpqZc

What happens when a Prolog does a web server?

You end up with the PiLLoW framework,
with nonsense such as html//1 and print_html/1.
This is the worst "milestone" ever in Prolog.

https://cliplab.org/Software/pillow/pillow.html

Bye

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.prolog

Hi,

Wanna found an IDE business. Well the Editor
is only the Tip of the Ice Berg. What gives
you wings like red bull, is this:

- Instant editing:
Files don’t really have a modified status,
they get directly written. Typically the MVC
is buffer based there. But for instant editing,
buffers are written when an application switch happens.

- Local File Content History:
IntelliJ keeps a local file content history.
This compensates the dangers of instant editing.
Instant editing is very useful for tool interaction,
like interacting with a Prolog system. Through local
file content history I can view local changes and
undo them across IDE starts.

- CVS Integration:
IntelliJ has CVS integration, like SVN, GIT, etc..
through their local history. You can freely choose
what to commit or not. And you can also receive
changes from a repo.

- File System Operation Integration:
Local File Content History and CVS Integration are
in sync with refactoring. So when I move a file, this
is a move on the file system. But File Content History
and CVS don’t get confused by a move. The simply show it
in their history as well.

- File Content Index:
The IDE also maintains a global text index, and
this text index gets notified by external changes and
internal changes. They pretty well have it always accurate,
including file moves, lengthy re-indexing of a whole
repository happens rarely.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

The average Prologer in 2025:

Interview with an Emacs Enthusiast [Colorized] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urcL86UpqZc

What happens when a Prolog does a web server?

You end up with the PiLLoW framework,
with nonsense such as html//1 and print_html/1.
This is the worst "milestone" ever in Prolog.

https://cliplab.org/Software/pillow/pillow.html

Bye

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.prolog

If you have a suitable Prolog plugin,
you can do all kind of search,

Currently the marketplace shows me only one Prolog
plugin, but it rather adresses gprolog than SWI-Prolog.
Strange I think there were more. But if plugins don’t

get maintained they often become incompatible.
I didn’t try the below yet, seems to be new!

https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/20982-prologcode

So only I Prolog tries to tap into a company like
JetBrains that has profit of at least 200 million USD
per year, with a growth of 5 - 7% per year.

Prologers are all communists I guess.

P.S.: The plugin seems to be from Switzerland.
But it wasn’t me! PrologCode is a plugin for IntelliJ
IDEA that provides support for the Prolog language.

Specifically, it provides:

Prolog syntax highlighting
Prolog code completion
Prolog code folding
Prolog code navigation

Three different ways to run a GNU Prolog REPL
Real-time background syntax checking.

Initially, this plugin was developed as part of
a project for the course “Programmation
logique” at HEIA-FR.

https://www.heia-fr.ch/

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

Wanna found an IDE business. Well the Editor
is only the Tip of the Ice Berg. What gives
you wings like red bull, is this:

- Instant editing:
  Files don’t really have a modified status,
  they get directly written. Typically the MVC
  is buffer based there. But for instant editing,
  buffers are written when an application switch happens.

- Local File Content History:
  IntelliJ keeps a local file content history.
  This compensates the dangers of instant editing.
  Instant editing is very useful for tool interaction,
  like interacting with a Prolog system. Through local
  file content history I can view local changes and
  undo them across IDE starts.

- CVS Integration:
  IntelliJ has CVS integration, like SVN, GIT, etc..
  through their local history. You can freely choose
  what to commit or not. And you can also receive
  changes from a repo.

- File System Operation Integration:
  Local File Content History and CVS Integration are
  in sync with refactoring. So when I move a file, this
  is a move on the file system. But File Content History
  and CVS don’t get confused by a move. The simply show it
  in their history as well.

- File Content Index:
  The IDE also maintains a global text index, and
  this text index gets notified by external changes and
  internal changes. They pretty well have it always accurate,
  including file moves, lengthy re-indexing of a whole
  repository happens rarely.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

The average Prologer in 2025:

Interview with an Emacs Enthusiast [Colorized]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urcL86UpqZc

What happens when a Prolog does a web server?

You end up with the PiLLoW framework,
with nonsense such as html//1 and print_html/1.
This is the worst "milestone" ever in Prolog.

https://cliplab.org/Software/pillow/pillow.html

Bye

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.prolog

Hi,

If I take this DCG miscarriage:

Implementations conforming to this TS shall
not define or use a predicate (\+)/3. http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/ulrich/iso-prolog/dcgs/dcgsdraft-2023-08-14.pdf

Possibly the same as here, but who pays
98 CHF for such a nonsense?

ISO/IEC TS 13211-3:2025
https://www.iso.org/standard/83635.html

I must believe gprolog is not conforming.

LoL

Bye

P.S.: You can check yourself, it fully supports (\+)/3:

/* GNU Prolog 1.5.0 (64 bits) */
p --> \+ q, r.
p --> \+ q.

And then:

/* GNU Prolog 1.5.0 (64 bits) */
?- listing.
p(A, B) :-
\+ q(A, _),
r(A, B).
p(A, B) :-
\+ q(A, _),
A = B.

Mild Shock schrieb:

If you have a suitable Prolog plugin,
you can do all kind of search,

Currently the marketplace shows me only one Prolog
plugin, but it rather adresses gprolog than SWI-Prolog.
Strange I think there were more. But if plugins don’t

get maintained they often become incompatible.
I didn’t try the below yet, seems to be new!

https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/20982-prologcode

So only I Prolog tries to tap into a company like
JetBrains that has profit of at least 200 million USD
per year, with a growth of 5 - 7% per year.

Prologers are all communists I guess.

P.S.: The plugin seems to be from Switzerland.
But it wasn’t me! PrologCode is a plugin for IntelliJ
IDEA that provides support for the Prolog language.

Specifically, it provides:

Prolog syntax highlighting
Prolog code completion
Prolog code folding
Prolog code navigation

Three different ways to run a GNU Prolog REPL
Real-time background syntax checking.

Initially, this plugin was developed as part of
a project for the course “Programmation
logique” at HEIA-FR.

https://www.heia-fr.ch/

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

Wanna found an IDE business. Well the Editor
is only the Tip of the Ice Berg. What gives
you wings like red bull, is this:

- Instant editing:
   Files don’t really have a modified status,
   they get directly written. Typically the MVC
   is buffer based there. But for instant editing,
   buffers are written when an application switch happens.

- Local File Content History:
   IntelliJ keeps a local file content history.
   This compensates the dangers of instant editing.
   Instant editing is very useful for tool interaction,
   like interacting with a Prolog system. Through local
   file content history I can view local changes and
   undo them across IDE starts.

- CVS Integration:
   IntelliJ has CVS integration, like SVN, GIT, etc..
   through their local history. You can freely choose
   what to commit or not. And you can also receive
   changes from a repo.

- File System Operation Integration:
   Local File Content History and CVS Integration are
   in sync with refactoring. So when I move a file, this
   is a move on the file system. But File Content History
   and CVS don’t get confused by a move. The simply show it
   in their history as well.

- File Content Index:
   The IDE also maintains a global text index, and
   this text index gets notified by external changes and
   internal changes. They pretty well have it always accurate,
   including file moves, lengthy re-indexing of a whole
   repository happens rarely.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

The average Prologer in 2025:

Interview with an Emacs Enthusiast [Colorized]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urcL86UpqZc

What happens when a Prolog does a web server?

You end up with the PiLLoW framework,
with nonsense such as html//1 and print_html/1.
This is the worst "milestone" ever in Prolog.

https://cliplab.org/Software/pillow/pillow.html

Bye

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.prolog

Hi,

More cringe incoming:

Implementations conforming to this TS shall not
define or use a predicate !/2. http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/ulrich/iso-prolog/dcgs/dcgsdraft-2023-08-14.pdf


LoL

Guess what DCG gets almost rendered totally
useless without (\+)/3 and (!)/2. Especially
for efficient and intelligent parsing.

With (\+)/3 and (!)/2 its gets close to PEG:

Parsing expression grammar (PEG) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsing_expression_grammar

PEG doesn't shy away from Not-predicate: !e, here an example:

C ← Begin N* End
Begin ← '(*'
End ← '*)'
N ← C / (!Begin !End .)

Homework: do it in Prolog.

Bye

P.S.: Check out gprolog, its very easy:

/* GNU Prolog 1.5.0 (64 bits) */
p --> q, !, r.
p --> q, !.

And then:

/* GNU Prolog 1.5.0 (64 bits) */
?- listing.
p(A, B) :-
q(A, C), !,
r(C, B).
p(A, B) :-
q(A, C), !,
C = B.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

If I take this DCG miscarriage:

Implementations conforming to this TS shall
not define or use a predicate (\+)/3. http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/ulrich/iso-prolog/dcgs/dcgsdraft-2023-08-14.pdf

Possibly the same as here, but who pays
98 CHF for such a nonsense?

ISO/IEC TS 13211-3:2025
https://www.iso.org/standard/83635.html

I must believe gprolog is not conforming.

LoL

Bye

P.S.: You can check yourself, it fully supports (\+)/3:

/* GNU Prolog 1.5.0 (64 bits) */
p --> \+ q, r.
p --> \+ q.

And then:

/* GNU Prolog 1.5.0 (64 bits) */
?- listing.
p(A, B) :-
    \+ q(A, _),
    r(A, B).
p(A, B) :-
    \+ q(A, _),
    A = B.

Mild Shock schrieb:

If you have a suitable Prolog plugin,
you can do all kind of search,

Currently the marketplace shows me only one Prolog
plugin, but it rather adresses gprolog than SWI-Prolog.
Strange I think there were more. But if plugins don’t

get maintained they often become incompatible.
I didn’t try the below yet, seems to be new!

https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/20982-prologcode

So only I Prolog tries to tap into a company like
JetBrains that has profit of at least 200 million USD
per year, with a growth of 5 - 7% per year.

Prologers are all communists I guess.

P.S.: The plugin seems to be from Switzerland.
But it wasn’t me! PrologCode is a plugin for IntelliJ
IDEA that provides support for the Prolog language.

Specifically, it provides:

Prolog syntax highlighting
Prolog code completion
Prolog code folding
Prolog code navigation

Three different ways to run a GNU Prolog REPL
Real-time background syntax checking.

Initially, this plugin was developed as part of
a project for the course “Programmation
logique” at HEIA-FR.

https://www.heia-fr.ch/

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

Wanna found an IDE business. Well the Editor
is only the Tip of the Ice Berg. What gives
you wings like red bull, is this:

- Instant editing:
   Files don’t really have a modified status,
   they get directly written. Typically the MVC
   is buffer based there. But for instant editing,
   buffers are written when an application switch happens.

- Local File Content History:
   IntelliJ keeps a local file content history.
   This compensates the dangers of instant editing.
   Instant editing is very useful for tool interaction,
   like interacting with a Prolog system. Through local
   file content history I can view local changes and
   undo them across IDE starts.

- CVS Integration:
   IntelliJ has CVS integration, like SVN, GIT, etc..
   through their local history. You can freely choose
   what to commit or not. And you can also receive
   changes from a repo.

- File System Operation Integration:
   Local File Content History and CVS Integration are
   in sync with refactoring. So when I move a file, this
   is a move on the file system. But File Content History
   and CVS don’t get confused by a move. The simply show it
   in their history as well.

- File Content Index:
   The IDE also maintains a global text index, and
   this text index gets notified by external changes and
   internal changes. They pretty well have it always accurate,
   including file moves, lengthy re-indexing of a whole
   repository happens rarely.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

The average Prologer in 2025:

Interview with an Emacs Enthusiast [Colorized]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urcL86UpqZc

What happens when a Prolog does a web server?

You end up with the PiLLoW framework,
with nonsense such as html//1 and print_html/1.
This is the worst "milestone" ever in Prolog.

https://cliplab.org/Software/pillow/pillow.html

Bye

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.prolog

Hi,

BTW: A Haskell Lazy library(pio) has no problem
with (\+)/3 and (!)/2. If this was the reason
for restricting DCG , then good night.

Pure I/O in Dogelog Player
https://medium.com/@janburse_2989/1dc0afb9dcae

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

More cringe incoming:

Implementations conforming to this TS shall not
define or use a predicate !/2. http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/ulrich/iso-prolog/dcgs/dcgsdraft-2023-08-14.pdf

LoL

Guess what DCG gets almost rendered totally
useless without (\+)/3 and (!)/2. Especially
for efficient and intelligent parsing.

With (\+)/3 and (!)/2 its gets close to PEG:

Parsing expression grammar (PEG) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsing_expression_grammar

PEG doesn't shy away from Not-predicate: !e, here an example:

C     ← Begin N* End
Begin ← '(*'
End   ← '*)'
N     ← C / (!Begin !End .)

Homework: do it in Prolog.

Bye

P.S.: Check out gprolog, its very easy:

/* GNU Prolog 1.5.0 (64 bits) */
p --> q, !, r.
p --> q, !.

And then:

/* GNU Prolog 1.5.0 (64 bits) */
?- listing.
p(A, B) :-
    q(A, C), !,
    r(C, B).
p(A, B) :-
    q(A, C), !,
    C = B.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

If I take this DCG miscarriage:

Implementations conforming to this TS shall
not define or use a predicate (\+)/3.
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/ulrich/iso-prolog/dcgs/dcgsdraft-2023-08-14.pdf


Possibly the same as here, but who pays
98 CHF for such a nonsense?

ISO/IEC TS 13211-3:2025
https://www.iso.org/standard/83635.html

I must believe gprolog is not conforming.

LoL

Bye

P.S.: You can check yourself, it fully supports (\+)/3:

/* GNU Prolog 1.5.0 (64 bits) */
p --> \+ q, r.
p --> \+ q.

And then:

/* GNU Prolog 1.5.0 (64 bits) */
?- listing.
p(A, B) :-
     \+ q(A, _),
     r(A, B).
p(A, B) :-
     \+ q(A, _),
     A = B.

Mild Shock schrieb:

If you have a suitable Prolog plugin,
you can do all kind of search,

Currently the marketplace shows me only one Prolog
plugin, but it rather adresses gprolog than SWI-Prolog.
Strange I think there were more. But if plugins don’t

get maintained they often become incompatible.
I didn’t try the below yet, seems to be new!

https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/20982-prologcode

So only I Prolog tries to tap into a company like
JetBrains that has profit of at least 200 million USD
per year, with a growth of 5 - 7% per year.

Prologers are all communists I guess.

P.S.: The plugin seems to be from Switzerland.
But it wasn’t me! PrologCode is a plugin for IntelliJ
IDEA that provides support for the Prolog language.

Specifically, it provides:

Prolog syntax highlighting
Prolog code completion
Prolog code folding
Prolog code navigation

Three different ways to run a GNU Prolog REPL
Real-time background syntax checking.

Initially, this plugin was developed as part of
a project for the course “Programmation
logique” at HEIA-FR.

https://www.heia-fr.ch/

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

Wanna found an IDE business. Well the Editor
is only the Tip of the Ice Berg. What gives
you wings like red bull, is this:

- Instant editing:
   Files don’t really have a modified status,
   they get directly written. Typically the MVC
   is buffer based there. But for instant editing,
   buffers are written when an application switch happens.

- Local File Content History:
   IntelliJ keeps a local file content history.
   This compensates the dangers of instant editing.
   Instant editing is very useful for tool interaction,
   like interacting with a Prolog system. Through local
   file content history I can view local changes and
   undo them across IDE starts.

- CVS Integration:
   IntelliJ has CVS integration, like SVN, GIT, etc..
   through their local history. You can freely choose
   what to commit or not. And you can also receive
   changes from a repo.

- File System Operation Integration:
   Local File Content History and CVS Integration are
   in sync with refactoring. So when I move a file, this
   is a move on the file system. But File Content History
   and CVS don’t get confused by a move. The simply show it
   in their history as well.

- File Content Index:
   The IDE also maintains a global text index, and
   this text index gets notified by external changes and
   internal changes. They pretty well have it always accurate,
   including file moves, lengthy re-indexing of a whole
   repository happens rarely.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

The average Prologer in 2025:

Interview with an Emacs Enthusiast [Colorized]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urcL86UpqZc

What happens when a Prolog does a web server?

You end up with the PiLLoW framework,
with nonsense such as html//1 and print_html/1.
This is the worst "milestone" ever in Prolog.

https://cliplab.org/Software/pillow/pillow.html

Bye

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2