From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

KDE Goes Wayland:

https://blogs.kde.org/2025/11/26/going-all-in-on-a-wayland-future/

But what kind of a fucking idiot asshole would ever want to use
that bloated garbage known as "KDE?"

X11 will persist for a LONG, LONG, LONG time.

Regarding screen capture, can that stupid Wayland utilize
Nvidia UVM to capture with only GPU?

Answer: Fuck no!

Wayland is garbage and so are all Wayland advocates.

Wayland advocates will claim that xwayland can accommodate
any X11 application but this is pure BULLSHIT (just like
Wayland advocates).

The SMART people, like me (IQ 280), will stick with X11.

Wayland, and all of its advocates, can go to fucking hell.
--
Gentoo: the only road to GNU/Linux freedom and perfection.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Dec 5, 2025 at 2:26:39 PM MST, "Farley Flud" wrote <pan$1d816$ef458b6e$e50ff58b$47c70011@linux.rocks>:

<div id="editor" contenteditable="false">KDE Goes Wayland:

https://blogs.kde.org/2025/11/26/going-all-in-on-a-wayland-future/

But what kind of a fucking idiot asshole would ever want to use
that bloated garbage known as "KDE?"

X11 will persist for a LONG, LONG, LONG time.

Regarding screen capture, can that stupid Wayland utilize
Nvidia UVM to capture with only GPU?

Answer: Fuck no!

Wayland is garbage and so are all Wayland advocates.

Wayland advocates will claim that xwayland can accommodate
any X11 application but this is pure BULLSHIT (just like
Wayland advocates).

The SMART people, like me (IQ 280), will stick with X11.

Wayland, and all of its advocates, can go to fucking hell.

Wayland isn't perfect, but it fixes X11's decades-old baggage. Screen capture via NVIDIA UVM isn't possible due to Wayland's design (security and privacy matter), not because it’s "garbage". XWayland runs most X11 apps, with minor edge-case issues. If it was worthless why are so many using it replace the aging X11?
--
It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at peace with you.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 12/5/25 4:26 PM, Farley Flud wrote:

KDE Goes Wayland:

https://blogs.kde.org/2025/11/26/going-all-in-on-a-wayland-future/

But what kind of a fucking idiot asshole would ever want to use
that bloated garbage known as "KDE?"

X11 will persist for a LONG, LONG, LONG time.

Regarding screen capture, can that stupid Wayland utilize
Nvidia UVM to capture with only GPU?

Answer: Fuck no!

Wayland is garbage and so are all Wayland advocates.

Wayland advocates will claim that xwayland can accommodate
any X11 application but this is pure BULLSHIT (just like
Wayland advocates).

The SMART people, like me (IQ 280), will stick with X11.

Wayland, and all of its advocates, can go to fucking hell.

Your computer would suck with Wayland or with X11.
--
Joel W. Crump
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 12/5/25 16:26, Farley Flud wrote:

KDE Goes Wayland:

https://blogs.kde.org/2025/11/26/going-all-in-on-a-wayland-future/

But what kind of a fucking idiot asshole would ever want to use
that bloated garbage known as "KDE?"

Tend to agree :-)

Like LXDE and, if not to be had, XFCE.

X11 will persist for a LONG, LONG, LONG time.

X11 is technically "clunky", but it is also
well REFINED and DOCUMENTED. If you don't do
zippy video games then X11 is more than good
enough for most anything.

Regarding screen capture, can that stupid Wayland utilize
Nvidia UVM to capture with only GPU?

Answer: Fuck no!

Wayland is garbage and so are all Wayland advocates.

Wayland advocates will claim that xwayland can accommodate
any X11 application but this is pure BULLSHIT (just like
Wayland advocates).

The SMART people, like me (IQ 280), will stick with X11.

Wayland, and all of its advocates, can go to fucking hell.

Wayland, at this point it's clear it will
NEVER be ready for prime time. They've been
at it forever and it's STILL all weird.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Fri, 5 Dec 2025 23:30:45 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Wayland, at this point it's clear it will NEVER be ready for prime
time. They've been at it forever and it's STILL all weird.

Currently I have 3 computers with Wayland and one with x11. No problema
with any of them.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 12/6/25 03:55, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 5 Dec 2025 23:30:45 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Wayland, at this point it's clear it will NEVER be ready for prime
time. They've been at it forever and it's STILL all weird.

Currently I have 3 computers with Wayland and one with x11. No problema
with any of them.

Lucky you.

Others have different experiences.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 6 Dec 2025 08:55:00 GMT, rbowman wrote:

Currently I have 3 computers with Wayland. No problema
with any of them.

Let me fix that for you:

Currently I have 3 computers with Wayland, with which I do
nothing. They may as well be paperweights. No problems
with any of them.

There. That's much better.
--
Gentoo: the only road to GNU/Linux freedom and perfection.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 06/12/2025 08:55, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 5 Dec 2025 23:30:45 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Wayland, at this point it's clear it will NEVER be ready for prime
time. They've been at it forever and it's STILL all weird.

Currently I have 3 computers with Wayland and one with x11. No problema
with any of them.

That is reassuring to hear.

I have no issues with dumping X windows.

MAC OS-X worked fine without it. Insofar as anything apple ever works 'fine'

All I want is a GUI that does CAD and I can play a couple of games on or
watch videos
--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!



--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 06/12/2025 09:20, c186282 wrote:

On 12/6/25 03:55, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 5 Dec 2025 23:30:45 -0500, c186282 wrote:

    Wayland, at this point it's clear it will NEVER be ready for prime >>>     time. They've been at it forever and it's STILL all weird.

Currently I have 3 computers with Wayland and one with x11. No problema
with any of them.

  Lucky you.

  Others have different experiences.

...allegedly...

Obviously if you are an inveterate hacker using the one feature of X
windows that no one else even knew existed, your sketchy shit probably
wont work on Wayland..

Unlike systemd, which affected everyone's not so sketchy tried and
tested shit. And broke it.
--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Fri, 5 Dec 2025 23:30:45 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Tend to agree :-)

I hope so. I'd hate to think that you are mentally retarded.

Like LXDE and, if not to be had, XFCE.

These are still "DEs."

Many, many people prefer a simple window manager and
the entire legacy of Unix window managers will literally
be wiped out by Wayland.

Wayland, at this point it's clear it will
NEVER be ready for prime time. They've been
at it forever and it's STILL all weird.

Wayland is a worthy endeavor, but it also breaks many,
many legacy software packages that are still eminently
useful -- and, regardless of the claims by Wayland
advocates, xwayland CANNOT make up the difference.

Therein lies the problem. Anything that reduces choice
should be purged from FOSS.

Fortunately, X11 is still being maintained. For example,
during my latest weekly Gentoo update, libkdbcommon and
xkbcomp were updated:

https://github.com/xkbcommon/libxkbcommon/

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/app/xkbcomp

X11 will be around for a LONG, LONG while.

Wayland and its advocates can all bend over forward
and suck their own cocks.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autofellatio

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Autofellatio_2013_autofelador_selfie.jpg
--
Gentoo: the only road to GNU/Linux freedom and perfection.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Sat, 6 Dec 2025 04:20:41 -0500, c186282 wrote:

On 12/6/25 03:55, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 5 Dec 2025 23:30:45 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Wayland, at this point it's clear it will NEVER be ready for prime
time. They've been at it forever and it's STILL all weird.

Currently I have 3 computers with Wayland and one with x11. No problema
with any of them.

Lucky you.

Others have different experiences.

That can be said about everything. I have a somewhat limited use case. I'm
not a gamer and I do not have any Nvidia devices.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Sat, 6 Dec 2025 11:27:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/12/2025 08:55, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 5 Dec 2025 23:30:45 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Wayland, at this point it's clear it will NEVER be ready for prime
time. They've been at it forever and it's STILL all weird.

Currently I have 3 computers with Wayland and one with x11. No problema
with any of them.

That is reassuring to hear.

I have no issues with dumping X windows.

MAC OS-X worked fine without it. Insofar as anything apple ever works
'fine'

All I want is a GUI that does CAD and I can play a couple of games on or watch videos

Luckily I don't have to worry about legacy CAD (computer aided dispatch) software any longer. It has about a 30 year tail and was developed using Motif. With Motif sooner or later you're going to go spelunking past Xt
and down into the bowels of Xlib to do stuff Wayland is designed to
forbid. Also, with that long a history MVC has went to hell and business
logic has found its way into Motif widgets.

When we moved to a browser based interface using Angular the backend code remained the same but all the legacy UI was good for was a model.

There is no easy path or magic wand for legacy X applications. I don't
know how many still exist and are widely used. Somehow I don't think Xsnow will make it to Wayland. At this point it only snows on the wallpaper.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 06/12/2025 20:23, rbowman wrote:

Luckily I don't have to worry about legacy CAD (computer aided dispatch) software any longer.

Computer aided design, or in the realm of custom cars, cardboard
assisted design (cut the piece out of cardboard firsts, then metal, then
beat it into shape).
--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 2025-12-06 10:20, c186282 wrote:

On 12/6/25 03:55, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 5 Dec 2025 23:30:45 -0500, c186282 wrote:

    Wayland, at this point it's clear it will NEVER be ready for prime >>>     time. They've been at it forever and it's STILL all weird.

Currently I have 3 computers with Wayland and one with x11. No problema
with any of them.

  Lucky you.

  Others have different experiences.

The new release of openSUSE Leap 16 is Wayland.

It doesn't run on a virtual machine using vmware, possibly because it
doesn't have hardware accel 3D graphics.

So, KDE doesn't run. I can use XFCE with the legacy X11.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

c186282 wrote:

Wayland, at this point it's clear it will
 NEVER be ready for prime time. They've been
at it forever and it's STILL all weird.

What is the general thought here about XLibre? The fork has made a lot of progress and a ton of bugfixes that make X perfect in my daily experience. XNamespaces, if anything ever uses them, makes the security principal
behind Wayland obscolete.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 11:35:42 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/12/2025 20:23, rbowman wrote:

Luckily I don't have to worry about legacy CAD (computer aided
dispatch)
software any longer.

Computer aided design, or in the realm of custom cars, cardboard
assisted design (cut the piece out of cardboard firsts, then metal, then
beat it into shape).

I interviewed on person who either skimmed the company profile or did no research at all. The interview went downhill fast when he realize the job didn't involve Gerber files and the like.

At least he brought skills to the table, if not the right ones.
Interviewing recent CS graduates from the local mill was depressing; they
idd not get their money's worth.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 19:36:17 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

So, KDE doesn't run. I can use XFCE with the legacy X11.

I recently put Linux Mint on a laptop, using the MATE iso. I was curious
what Xfce looked like and added xfce4. I have Xfce on a Debian box but the Mint version was completely different. Since the program is aimed at Win10 refugees I'd recommend they stay with Cinnamon or MATE.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 12/7/25 13:44, kouya wrote:

c186282 wrote:

Wayland, at this point it's clear it will
 NEVER be ready for prime time. They've been
at it forever and it's STILL all weird.

What is the general thought here about XLibre? The fork has made a lot of progress and a ton of bugfixes that make X perfect in my daily experience. XNamespaces, if anything ever uses them, makes the security principal
behind Wayland obscolete.

Still haven't tried it. Maybe someday.

X *works* and is very well documented.

Perhaps somebody, maybe with AI help, could
create an "X2" ... de-clunked, tighter ... but
still obeying all the old rules ?

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 08/12/2025 03:08, c186282 wrote:

On 12/7/25 13:44, kouya wrote:

c186282 wrote:

Wayland, at this point it's clear it will
  NEVER be ready for prime time. They've been
at it forever and it's STILL all weird.

What is the general thought here about XLibre? The fork has made a lot of
progress and a ton of bugfixes that make X perfect in my daily
experience.
XNamespaces, if anything ever uses them, makes the security principal
behind Wayland obscolete.

  Still haven't tried it. Maybe someday.

  X *works* and is very well documented.

  Perhaps somebody, maybe with AI help, could
  create an "X2" ... de-clunked, tighter ... but
  still obeying all the old rules ?

Well that is what Wayland purports to be. Obeying 'enough' of the old
rule to make it usable.

Nothing to stop you back porting any others you like.

The great thing about open source, is if you dont like it, recode it yourself...
--
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote at 03:08 this Monday (GMT):

On 12/7/25 13:44, kouya wrote:

c186282 wrote:

Wayland, at this point it's clear it will
 NEVER be ready for prime time. They've been
at it forever and it's STILL all weird.

What is the general thought here about XLibre? The fork has made a lot of
progress and a ton of bugfixes that make X perfect in my daily experience. >> XNamespaces, if anything ever uses them, makes the security principal
behind Wayland obscolete.

Still haven't tried it. Maybe someday.

X *works* and is very well documented.

Exactly, from what I've seen Wayland has some issues right now, and X11
works perfectly well.

Perhaps somebody, maybe with AI help, could
create an "X2" ... de-clunked, tighter ... but
still obeying all the old rules ?

The ai probably would make things worse

Maybe the XLibre fork could end up being the next X11?
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 08/12/2025 18:40, candycanearter07 wrote:

Exactly, from what I've seen Wayland has some issues right now, and X11
works perfectly well.

I'm not sure matters are helped by non-working instructions like

https://linuxvox.com/blog/how-to-install-wayland-on-linux-mint/

which just stopped me logging on the screen when I made the lightdm change.


I do notice that there seems no way to pick a session type at the login screen. I'm almost sure there used to be a small button to press
somewhere to choose.

(Mint mate 22.2)
--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 18:40:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:

Maybe the XLibre fork could end up being the next X11?

A lot of users report no problems with XLibre.

You should install XLibre and report any issues to their
website.

But does your disto allow that?

That's the problem. The big distros are deliberately suppressing
XLibre as they have suppressed alternatives to systemd.

The big distros have no interest in offering choice. They
are committed only to their self-proclaimed concepts of "progress."
--
Gentoo: the only road to GNU/Linux freedom and perfection.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

In comp.os.linux.misc candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote at 03:08 this Monday (GMT):

Perhaps somebody, maybe with AI help, could
create an "X2" ... de-clunked, tighter ... but
still obeying all the old rules ?

The ai probably would make things worse

Maybe the XLibre fork could end up being the next X11?

I sure hope not, but you probably mean XLibre being the next Xorg.
X11 is the protocol, Xorg/XLibre are implementations. The last
thing needed at this point is a pointless attempt to split the X
protocol in some incompatible way. Leave all that to the people
who want to play with Wayland, which I certainly don't.

Anyway before XLibre existed we already had "de-clunked,
tighter" X in the form of the TinyX servers abandoned by Xorg but
still somewhat maintained as forks, and they're really as efficient
as anyone could want. There's also NanoX which is done completely
from scratch but doesn't work with X11/Xlib like Xorg and friends,
so software has to be recompiled for it.
--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 19:12:14 +0000, Mike Scott wrote:

On 08/12/2025 18:40, candycanearter07 wrote:

Exactly, from what I've seen Wayland has some issues right now, and X11
works perfectly well.

I'm not sure matters are helped by non-working instructions like

https://linuxvox.com/blog/how-to-install-wayland-on-linux-mint/

which just stopped me logging on the screen when I made the lightdm
change.

I do notice that there seems no way to pick a session type at the login screen. I'm almost sure there used to be a small button to press
somewhere to choose.

(Mint mate 22.2)

It's a little obscure but it's there. My original install was from the
MATE iso but I added i3 and Xfce. I just have to remember that at that
point it's still a right handed mouse rather than the left handed one I
have configured in the sessions.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 08/12/2025 18:40, candycanearter07 wrote:

Exactly, from what I've seen Wayland has some issues right now, and X11
works perfectly well.

That is standard for all new releases of anything.
Even my own software goes through 'revisions...:-)
--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Tue, 09 Dec 2025 09:59:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

That is standard for all new releases of anything.
Even my own software goes through 'revisions...:-)

But Wayland is not exactly a "new release."

Wayland development has been going on for close to TWENTY YEARS
and it still is not suitable as a reliable and versatile graphics
subsystem.

Furthermore, Wayland is not a project done by amateurs in their
spare time. Wayland is supported by IBM/RedHat big bucks.

Wake me up when I couldn't distinguish X11 from Wayland by any practical measure.
--
Hail Linux! Hail FOSS! Hail Stallman!
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 09/12/2025 11:24, Farley Flud wrote:

On Tue, 09 Dec 2025 09:59:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

That is standard for all new releases of anything.
Even my own software goes through 'revisions...:-)

But Wayland is not exactly a "new release."

Wayland development has been going on for close to TWENTY YEARS

17 years at most

and it still is not suitable as a reliable and versatile graphics
subsystem.

That is your opinion. It is not a fact.

Peole seenm to be uisng it without too many issues

Furthermore, Wayland is not a project done by amateurs in their
spare time. Wayland is supported by IBM/RedHat big bucks.

Wake me up when I couldn't distinguish X11 from Wayland by any practical measure.

If there were no detectable differences there wouldn't be any point in
having Wayland at all would there?

Seriously your logic needs a semester or two in philosophy to sort out.



--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent renewable energy.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 14:17:51 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Furthermore, Wayland is not a project done by amateurs in their
spare time. Wayland is supported by IBM/RedHat big bucks.

Wake me up when I couldn't distinguish X11 from Wayland by any
practical measure.

If there were no detectable differences there wouldn't be any point
in having Wayland at all would there?

Seriously your logic needs a semester or two in philosophy to sort
out.

If a project is as open and direct about aiming to supplant and replace
another project as Wayland has been, expecting it to offer feature
parity with the thing it's replacing (and a relatively seamless switch
in terms of user experience) is entirely reasonable.

If this were Just Another FOSS Project, nobody would care that much
about missing features or wonky design choices - rather, them as did
care would ignore it, and the True Believers could continue on their
merry way. But Wayland specifically wants to be the Only Game In Town,
and Red Hat has been throwing its considerable weight behind that.
*That's* what gets people hacked off, here, and with good reason.

It's a rare day when FF of all people is the reasonable party in an
exchanged. Wonder if I should buy a lottery ticket.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 14:17:51 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

If there were no detectable differences there wouldn't be any point in having Wayland at all would there?

The point, in the words of Linus Torvalds, is "do not ever break
user space."

In other words, any GNU/Linux graphical subsystem must ensure
compatibility with ALL software, both past and present.

Take a look at Microslop Winblows. Above all else, they strive
to ensure compatibility with all past software.

But Wayland is a fundamentally different concept from X11.
It has no inherent compositor and thus all graphical software
MUST "reinvent the wheel" over and over and over. It is a
most ridiculous concept

In short, Wayland breaks user space to the extreme. In order
to successfully implement Wayland, the user must abandon
all past generations of "legacy" software and adopt only
approved software -- approved by IBM/RedHat.

Xwayland is supposed to be the answer to legacy compatibility,
but experience shows that it falls far short of this goal.

Wayland should be only a CHOICE and not an IMPOSITION, but the
mainstream distros show their true colors by, again, as with
systemd, by insisting that Wayland is the only future and
by eliminating everything else.

However, someone like you would not ever care. You will
accept without question whatever your distro dictates simply
because you do not use your computing machine beyond the
totally frivolous activities.
--
Gentoo: the only road to GNU/Linux freedom and perfection.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 12/9/25 06:24, Farley Flud wrote:

On Tue, 09 Dec 2025 09:59:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

That is standard for all new releases of anything.
Even my own software goes through 'revisions...:-)

But Wayland is not exactly a "new release."

Wayland development has been going on for close to TWENTY YEARS
and it still is not suitable as a reliable and versatile graphics
subsystem.

Furthermore, Wayland is not a project done by amateurs in their
spare time. Wayland is supported by IBM/RedHat big bucks.

Wake me up when I couldn't distinguish X11 from Wayland by any practical measure.

My sentiment exactly.

In THEORY Wayland has potential ... but it has
languished, inched along, always has some hidden
gotchas.

The over-caffeinated volunteer hacks may have
made X11 a bit clunky, but it WORKS and has
huge documentation.

Maybe an AI can eventually clean up both and
make a best-of system that's not clunky ???


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

c186282 wrote:

In THEORY Wayland has potential ... but it has
languished, inched along, always has some hidden
gotchas.

The over-caffeinated volunteer hacks may have
made X11 a bit clunky, but it WORKS and has
huge documentation.

Maybe an AI can eventually clean up both and
make a best-of system that's not clunky ???

It wouldn't hurt to ask. "Hey ChatGPT, clean up X11 and Wayland to
make a best-of system that's not clunky."

Piece of cake! 8)
--
'[chrisv is] the same dimwit who thinks that determining if software
works or not is accomplished through "compile time warnings" and not
by actually testing the software.' - trolling fsckwit "Ezekiel",
lying shamelessly
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

Le 06-12-2025, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> a écrit :

Therein lies the problem. Anything that reduces choice
should be purged from FOSS.

As you want to reduce choice by refusing wayland, systemd and every
existing distro you should be purged from FOSS. Right?

Fortunately, X11 is still being maintained.

Dream on it. It's good for your mental health when you have nothing else
left.

X11 will be around for a LONG, LONG while.

By you? No way. As long as your only purpose is to display a black
screen, it will work forever. That's a good news for you. You can even
shut your computer down, you won't tell the difference. That's another
good news for you. Lucky guy.
--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On 12 Dec 2025 20:47:22 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

Fortunately, X11 is still being maintained.

Dream on it. It's good for your mental health when you have nothing else left.

You don't dream, Carpenter. You HALLUCINATE.

As I have said before, you depend entirely on distros and that's
why you use Wayland and systemd. You CANNOT use anything else.
You are a lackey.

But _I_ design and build my own unique GNU/Linux system. I merely
use Gentoo Portage to automate building, but the design and creation
are entirely my own.

Furthermore, X11 will ALWAYS be available. The source code is free
and open and all versions from present to past will always be available.

The same for Nvidia. The same for GTk. The same for EVERYTHING!

I will ALWAYS use X11 and my own init system and I will ALWAYS be current
and I will ALWAYS enjoy a system far more powerful and capable than you,
a beaten distro lackey, could ever imagine.

You are a distro dog. Whatever scraps they throw to you, you will
rabidly consume.

You are also a disgrace. GNU/Linux users should display creativity
and technical judgment but all that you can do, like a true lackey,
is obey the "masters."

Get out of here and do not ever come back.
--
Gentoo: the only road to GNU/Linux freedom and perfection.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

chrisv wrote:

c186282 wrote:

In THEORY Wayland has potential ... but it has
languished, inched along, always has some hidden
gotchas.

The over-caffeinated volunteer hacks may have
made X11 a bit clunky, but it WORKS and has
huge documentation.

Maybe an AI can eventually clean up both and
make a best-of system that's not clunky ???

It wouldn't hurt to ask. "Hey ChatGPT, clean up X11 and Wayland to
make a best-of system that's not clunky."

Piece of cake! 8)

I am not sure what your programming experience is, but asking an AI to
write any software that is non-trivial, let alone assist with it, is a
waste of time.

You all might be interested in the X11Libre fork of XOrg.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Sat, 6 Dec 2025 11:27:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

MAC OS-X worked fine without [X11].

It actually did have it included, right to this day. Lots of “Unix” software (in the sense that Apple aficionados use that term) won’t work without it.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

On Sat, 6 Dec 2025 11:27:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

MAC OS-X worked fine without [X11].

It actually did have it included, right to this day.

macOS has not included X11 for over a decade.
--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Sat, 6 Dec 2025 11:30:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Unlike systemd, which affected everyone's not so sketchy tried and
tested shit. And broke it.

systemd actually had better backward compatibility with sysvinit scripts
than some other service-manager alternatives.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Sun, 14 Dec 2025 01:48:44 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 6 Dec 2025 11:30:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Unlike systemd, which affected everyone's not so sketchy tried and
tested shit. And broke it.

systemd actually had better backward compatibility with sysvinit scripts
than some other service-manager alternatives.

It was a learning experience but systemd/systemctl makes adding and
enabling a new service easy and also adds useful metrics.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2