On 17/08/2025 20:17, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-16 12:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not any more.
Libya at least stopped being a threat.
Libya is a disaster of our own creation. To themselves and to any one
near enough.
They went very quite after getting missiled
On 17/08/2025 09:08, c186282 wrote:
"AM" is 'fair' for music ... not like you have
McIntosh amps/speakers in your car. It is, well,
"adequate".
The main prob is NOISE ...
That is because your RF bandwidth is only as wide as your audio
bandwidth,
And in Europe its SHIT for music, unless you are deaf. 4kHz is the
absolute limit
(We have 9kHz channel spacing)
"To allow room for more stations on the medium wave broadcast band in
the United States, in June 1989 the FCC adopted a National Radio Systems Committee (NRSC) standard that limited maximum transmitted *audio*
bandwidth to 10.2 kHz, limiting *occupied* bandwidth to 20.4 kHz. The
former audio limitation was 15 kHz resulting in bandwidth of 30 kHz."
So channel spacing in the USA is in fact 20Khz
"I was born one morning when the sun didn't shine,
I picked up my shovel and I walked to the mine ..."
On 8/17/25 2:01 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 12:49:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Never Mind. It will be miss Dental Treatment herself 'Great news, my
IQ tests cane back negative' Alexandria Ocasio Cortez.
The tough Bronx chick who grew up on the mean streets of Yorktown
Heights?
I really don't know the English equivalent of that punchline.
Hmmm ... may not quite BE one ...
However, UK clones of AOC ... HOPE there are no equivs
On 17/08/2025 07:01, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 12:49:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Never Mind. It will be miss Dental Treatment herself 'Great news, my
IQ tests cane back negative' Alexandria Ocasio Cortez.
The tough Bronx chick who grew up on the mean streets of Yorktown
Heights?
I really don't know the English equivalent of that punchline.
I get the message.
We have plenty similar.
But even in the ultimate
repressive dictatorship, “quis custodiet ipsos custodes” still applies: can the guy at the top really trust all of his underlings?
Roll forward another 300 years and the people who are the economy are
not landowners with peasants in the fields - not in Europe anyway -
they are the mill owners - the capitalists, who build industry, and obviously, since there are no robots, workers in those factories who
feel the rural luife to work in factories *because its actually a better life*.
On 8/16/25 9:22 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 12:04:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Democracy is not there to represent the will of the people. You were
lied to.
It does work better than the alternatives, though.
Let’s face it, *every* political system has to represent, in some form,
“the will of the people”. Even totalitarian dictators cannot govern
without the consent of the governed.
Bullshit - you then rule by TERRORIZING the governed.
Stasi. Vlad The Impaler. Stalin. Pol Pot .......
On 17/08/2025 20:17, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-16 12:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not any more.
Libya at least stopped being a threat.
Libya is a disaster of our own creation. To themselves and to any one
near enough.
They went very quite after getting missiled
And the cassette tape kept on improving, along with the rest of
magnetic- tape technology: new kinds of oxide and even plain-metal depositions, new bonding formulations, new noise-reduction techniques,
right into the 1990s as I recall. It was amazing how much “hi-fi” could be packed into a tape that was less than 4mm wide.
Cassettes weren't all THAT bad towards the end of their reign. The
noise problem was mostly gone and signal levels even for high freqs
were improved.
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 11:31:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Putting missiles somewhere to defend, isn't an act of aggression.
So why did the US feel so upset about the Soviets basing some missiles
in Cuba, then?
On 17/08/2025 07:59, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 12:34:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Yeah., After Rudi Dutschkes 'Long March through the Institutions' for
Trump is firing everyone he doesn't like. He has the witchfinder
general's nose for 'wokery' .
A new broom... In truth there are a lot of useless timeservers on top
of those that are following their own little agenda. Supposedly the
Pendleton Act ended the spoils system and replaced it with a
nonpolitical civil service based on merit but that worked as well as
most Acts of Congress.
the Commnuist Left, Trump is having a short exercise is simply defunding
them
Its one of the things that is very damaging short term but will probably
pay off long term, once the babies have bee separated from the bathwater
and reiinstated
On 8/17/25 14:09, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-16 13:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/08/2025 00:55, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 18:26:48 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-08-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Geopolitics is fiendishly complicated and its not a Gordian not that >>>>>> can be solved with one slice of a sword.
Even if that sword is called "tariffs"? Aw, damn.
I think I'll make a bowl of popcorn, sit back, and watch. I don''t
know if
it will help but I am behind Trump's firing of the Bureau of Labor
Statistics. It's not Trump, it's not recent, and it doesn't always
seem
partisan but the pattern for years has been
June Report: Everything is wonderful!
September, spoken in very quiet tones with no headlines: June's
report has
been revised upward/downward. Typically the number of new jobs is
revised
downward, inflation is upward. It's very suspicious the revisions are
always in the wrong direction.
Trump is firing everyone he doesn't like. He has the witchfinder
general's nose for 'wokery' .
In 4 years time we should know which ones were in fact vital public
servants and which ones were just pointless fat arsed bureaucrats
eating up public money .
And the next gummint wiill quietly reinstate the vital ones and use
the excuse that 'Trump destroyed the economy' to avoid rehiring the
rest.,
<https://edition.cnn.com/2025/08/05/weather/nws-rehiring-doge-layoffs-
climate>
Weather Service is now hiring back hundreds of positions that got
cut in the DOGE chaos
By Andrew Freedman Aug 5, 2025
Hmmph. A federal agency that couldn't function with ~10% fewer people.
Any bridges for sale?
On 17/08/2025 05:28, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 19:48:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Well you should have listened to McCarthy
How very Old Labour of you...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-o3CJytIPE
Once upon a time there was a labor movement in the US. Now the largest
union by far is the NEA, the teachers' union that is saving them from
backbreaking labor while setting up drag shows for fifth graders.
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 01:15:40 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 11:31:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Putting missiles somewhere to defend, isn't an act of aggression.
So why did the US feel so upset about the Soviets basing some missiles
in Cuba, then?
Exactly. Currently the US is also testy about the Chinese in Panama and
they didn't even bring missiles with them afaik.
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 10:03:37 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/08/2025 05:28, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 19:48:36 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
How very Old Labour of you...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-o3CJytIPE
Once upon a time there was a labor movement in the US. Now the largest
union by far is the NEA, the teachers' union that is saving them from
backbreaking labor while setting up drag shows for fifth graders.
Well you should have listened to McCarthy
He was right some of the time. The unions mostly did it to themselves.part in
When the Amalgamated Poultry Pluckers made a good deal with Acme Poultry they didn't care about United Sheep Shearers having to pay more for
chicken dinners.
The IWW proposed One Big Union and the trade unions played a large
destroying it. After all they had their comfortable contracts and the Wobblies were rocking the boat.
[Cassettes] were *always* dreadful - at least 10dB noisier than
vinyl, usually 20dB.
Mostly true. However it's the MEDIA that may be the problem.
Oversampling can reduce such errors.
CDs (and DVDs) often have read problems.Which all CDs have
Even FM in Europe is a bit restricted as IIRC they crammed channels in
at 200kHz spacing. Its not enough.
For decent stereo you need 400kHz...
By then everything will be digital via Internet or satellite - and
the signal will be compressed into crap so it doesn't really matter
anyway.
It was the religious wars and the Anglican Church been forced on
everyone in the Colonies which lead to our Constitution protection
against the Establishment of Religion.
Q: Why do the British drink warm beer?
A: Lucas makes refrigerators too.
And their governments are *stable*.
But your 'facts' are relative to *your* worldview.
On 17/08/2025 09:08, c186282 wrote:
"AM" is 'fair' for music ... not like you have
McIntosh amps/speakers in your car. It is, well,
"adequate".
The main prob is NOISE ...
That is because your RF bandwidth is only as wide as your audio bandwidth,
And in Europe its SHIT for music, unless you are deaf. 4kHz is the
absolute limit
(We have 9kHz channel spacing)
Even FM in Europe is a bit restricted as IIRC they crammed channels in
at 200kHz spacing. Its not enough.
For decent stereo you need 400kHz...
On 17/08/2025 05:12, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 11:31:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
No. it wasn't. NATO expanded some at the downfall of the Soviet Union,
but it was never aggressive, only defensive.
Putting missiles somewhere to defend, isn't an act of aggression.
Running your tanks down your neighbours front drive and killing their
kids, is.
Okay. I'll set up a Barrett .50 cal pointed at your front door. It's not
an act of aggression; I'm just getting ready to defend myself if you run
amok.
Fair enough. Id question your mental state and assume paranoia, but its
fair game
The Russians in Cuba were just defending against a US invasion. No need,
actually. The US screwed the invasion up all by themselves.
Do not piss down my back and tell me it's raining. The US may have
changed
the Department of War to Department of Defense in '47 but I grew up in
the
country and know what bullshit smells like.
Europe is not the USA. Neither is NATO.
On 17/08/2025 06:45, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
I am not talking about Americans. I am talking about Africans. In Africa
On 8/16/25 21:32, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 11:14:53 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Nearly total nonsense except for the Earl Butz quote which accurate.
Yup, That was more what I was thinking of. What the African wants was
never the vote - he votes tribal anyway - it was a roof, a toilet,
clean
water, electricity, healthcare, beer and boom boxes.
"What those people want is tight pussy, loose shoes, and a warm place to >>> shit."
Earl Butz.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Butz
That got his cracker ass fired stat.
Black people agitated renlentless for the vote in the 1960s and >> 1970s
and thought they had it with the Voting Rights Act which the Conservative
SCOUSA hacked away. Now we have another situation where voting
rights of the poor, non-white, non-straight, non-Christians and even
naturalized and citzens born in the USA are threatened.
Policticak emancipation comes after all the basics.
You cant eat a vote, nor shelter in it, nor cure diseases with it
Voting tribal what the hell does that mean?
Go to Africa and find out, Google 'Rwanda genocide'
White crackers
elect white people who tell them the lies of the racist past that
somehow they are better than any outstanding black people.
They are not and the USA is not the new Jerusalem as
the Puritans believed. It was just a place where diseases both
native and imported killed a lot of the Original Occupants
about the time the Pilgrims and the Puritain Fathers arrived.
Once again we see the Parochial American Mind which cannot conceive of Africans existing outside America.
But look up Joe Hill who was murdered in real life but lived on in the
hearts and minds of the labor organizers.
On 17/08/2025 05:46, c186282 wrote:
On 8/16/25 9:22 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:+1.
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 12:04:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Democracy is not there to represent the will of the people. You were
lied to.
It does work better than the alternatives, though.
Let’s face it, *every* political system has to represent, in some form, >>> “the will of the people”. Even totalitarian dictators cannot govern
without the consent of the governed.
Bullshit - you then rule by TERRORIZING the governed.
Stasi. Vlad The Impaler. Stalin. Pol Pot .......
I read a very interesting article, in the Financial Times, reviewing a
book whose thesis was that forms of government were what we would call emergent properties of the underlying economic system.
So roll back 1000 years and the basis of European wealth was land. And
the Labour to till it.
Protecting land was the job of the armed knights who owned it (courtesy
of the king). They could be rich enough to have a small army, and
armour. this cadre of Lord and his men-at-arms controlled the peasantry.
But another lord with his men at arms and a bunch of motivated peasants could invade your land and take it. You had to be nice enough to your peasants so they would fight for you.
The original social contract.
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 00:43:13 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Q: Why do the British drink warm beer?
A: Lucas makes refrigerators too.
I believe a nickname for Lucas was “the Prince of darkness” ...
On 17/08/2025 05:49, c186282 wrote:
On 8/16/25 9:31 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:Which all CDs have
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:20:37 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
"CD-quality audio", sure, but it is still a digital representation
of an
Analogue waveform which, in theory, has an infinite number of samples
per second.
Don’t believe that nonsense.
It is easy enough to put an oscilloscope on the output of a DAC to prove >>> that it can reproduce pure waves (like sine waves or more complex
signals)
as cleanly as you like, with no hint of the original sample rate
anywhere
in that waveform.
Mostly true. However it's the MEDIA that may
be the problem. Oversampling can reduce such
errors. CDs (and DVDs) often have read problems.
Error-correction techniques plus resampling
are the way to go.
On 17/08/2025 05:59, c186282 wrote:
Cassettes weren't all THAT bad towards the endThet were *always* dreadful - at least 10dB noisier than vinyl, usually 20dB. And without using exactly the same cassette every time Dolby
of their reign. The noise problem was mostly
gone and signal levels even for high freqs
were improved.
simply didnt work
Vinyl ... it's kind of SUPPOSED to be "stuckClimbing up towards 70dB S/N. But still subject to snap crackle and pop
in the 70s". IF you got a good pressing by a
good source it could be pretty spectacular.
The best examples were mostly limited pressings
of 'classical' music, not Led Zep for the masses.
And rumble flutter and wow.
At higher speeds, reel-2-reel can also be VERY good.Yes. Built to precision standards that's HOW vinyl got to 70dB - 50 ips
BIG inche wide tapes.
But its all now digital, because you can get 120dB or more. Simply
betind thehuman abilitry to hear the noise
I kind of hoped for music DVDs ... just music ... atCDs are perfectly good enough. AQaye better tbhan anything 'analogue'
higher bit resolution. Some promises, but all-electronic
pushed ahead.
Oh well, if you were smokin' Columbian in the back of
a funky van you REALLY didn't care about the tech specs
I am not so sure., dope boosted hearing can be very good.
But pissed up - even a low bitrate MP3 is better than vinyl
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 15:44:42 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
But look up Joe Hill who was murdered in real life but lived on in the
hearts and minds of the labor organizers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpX8Pg_FTH4
That is not 'I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night...'
I'll see your Joe Hill and raise a Frank Little.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Little_(unionist)
Before he was killed in Butte, he, Gurley FLynn and others took part in
the free speech fight in Missoula in 1909. There was a reenactment in 2009 and later Higgins and Front was added as a historic site. I can't remember but I think there was a marker on the corner before it became an official historic site.
Five degrees of Kevin Bacon Flynn was friends with another IWW organizer, James Connolly. He was from Ireland but lived in Troy, NY for a while,
which is the city closest ot where I grew up. There is a monument to him there.
https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/celebrating-the-life-of-james- connolly-in-troy-new-york/
He should have stayed in Troy. He was wounded in the 1916 Easter Rising. Dying and unable to stand, the Brits carried him out of Kilmainham Gaol on
a stretcher, tied him to a chair, and shot him. Brilliant PR move.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH6_4VcAzW0
fwiw I even have the t-shirt with the Sabo-Tabby.
https://archive.iww.org/history/icons/black_cat/
and the words "The working class and the employing class have nothing in common". Know where that comes from? Want some more IWW history? How
about Big Bill Haywood?
As I said I have a certain fondness for the socialists of the early 20th century. I have nothing but contempt for the woke 'socialists' of the
early 21st century.
On Mon, 18 Aug 2025 00:41:56 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 00:43:13 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Q: Why do the British drink warm beer?
A: Lucas makes refrigerators too.
I believe a nickname for Lucas was “the Prince of darkness” ...
It was. When a little red light on the dashboard of my Sprite came on I
was sure what it meant at first. It was a signal that the Prince had left
the building. Thankfully Lucas didn't make the battery so I managed to get home.
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 10:44:58 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mostly true. However it's the MEDIA that may be the problem.
Oversampling can reduce such errors.
Which is another load of nonsense.
CDs (and DVDs) often have read problems.Which all CDs have
Audio CDs have a layer of error correction which reduces the effective
noise rate down beyond the range of human hearing.
However, if you tried encoding computer data with just that error correction, it wouldn’t be enough. If it if were a “live CD”, for example,
then your computer would crash from all the errors before it could even finish booting up.
CD-ROMs add another layer of error correction, to bring the data fidelity
up to computer-data standards. This is why the audio CD sector size is
2352 bytes, while that for CD-ROM data is reduced to 2048 bytes.
DVDs start with a computer-style filesystem, already at full computer-data fidelity standards, and store the audio and video as files within that.--
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 18:12:15 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
By then everything will be digital via Internet or satellite - and
the signal will be compressed into crap so it doesn't really matter
anyway.
Digital offers you a tradeoff between bandwidth and quality. Of course commercial providers will make the choice that maximizes revenue, but just as well they are not the sole providers of audio/video content anyway ...
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 10:00:37 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:You have 20Khz spacing
On 17/08/2025 09:08, c186282 wrote:
"AM" is 'fair' for music ... not like you have
McIntosh amps/speakers in your car. It is, well,
"adequate".
The main prob is NOISE ...
That is because your RF bandwidth is only as wide as your audio
bandwidth,
And in Europe its SHIT for music, unless you are deaf. 4kHz is the
absolute limit
(We have 9kHz channel spacing)
We have 10 kHz spacing. Is it all that different? My Grundig can do either and if I push the wrong buttons I'm surprised when 1049 comes after 1040.
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 21:02:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"To allow room for more stations on the medium wave broadcast band in
the United States, in June 1989 the FCC adopted a National Radio Systems
Committee (NRSC) standard that limited maximum transmitted *audio*
bandwidth to 10.2 kHz, limiting *occupied* bandwidth to 20.4 kHz. The
former audio limitation was 15 kHz resulting in bandwidth of 30 kHz."
So channel spacing in the USA is in fact 20Khz
In practice the wings from the center frequency are down so many db they
do not matter unless you're in front of a spectrum analyzer.
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 02:35:48 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 8/17/25 2:01 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 12:49:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Never Mind. It will be miss Dental Treatment herself 'Great news, my
IQ tests cane back negative' Alexandria Ocasio Cortez.
The tough Bronx chick who grew up on the mean streets of Yorktown
Heights?
I really don't know the English equivalent of that punchline.
Hmmm ... may not quite BE one ...
However, UK clones of AOC ... HOPE there are no equivs
I meant I don't know enough about England to pick two communities, one
where you don't want to be (the Bronx) and one that is pleasant suburbia (Yorktown) that are about 45 miles from each other.
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 10:58:56 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Can do.
On 17/08/2025 07:01, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 12:49:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Never Mind. It will be miss Dental Treatment herself 'Great news, my
IQ tests cane back negative' Alexandria Ocasio Cortez.
The tough Bronx chick who grew up on the mean streets of Yorktown
Heights?
I really don't know the English equivalent of that punchline.
I get the message.
We have plenty similar.
Do British pols develop Yorkie accents while in Yorkshire?
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 10:44:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Roll forward another 300 years and the people who are the economy are
not landowners with peasants in the fields - not in Europe anyway -
they are the mill owners - the capitalists, who build industry, and
obviously, since there are no robots, workers in those factories who
feel the rural luife to work in factories *because its actually a better
life*.
You give the peasants a little extra motivation by passing the Inclosure Acts.
As I said I have a certain fondness for the socialists of the early 20th century. I have nothing but contempt for the woke 'socialists' of the
early 21st century.
Admittedly modern 'socialists' have little to do
with the Old Socialists. Today's are mindless fanatics
by and large.
But, BOTH, were still Marxo-Lefty SOCIALISTS. There
is the underlying fault, the century-long connection.
Error multiplied by error multiplied by error ....
Rwanda is STILL going on ... except now it's
backing lethal Congo rebels.
On the whole, "Africa" is still a HUGE mess -
kinda like medieval Europe - petty kings and
warlords and rebels ........
Despite the romantic BS, the "knights" were rarely
the friend of The People. They were the heavily-
armed guys who'd ride in and chop-up half the pop
of your village if you didn't bow low enough to
the Lord and pay his taxes.
In short, the kings THUGS.
Hey - money is MONEY and the Lords demanded as
much as possible and beyond.
Hi-Fi has less to do with technical accuracy than
it has to do with how the material is *perceived*
On 2025-08-18, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 18:12:15 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
By then everything will be digital via Internet or satellite - and
the signal will be compressed into crap so it doesn't really matter
anyway.
Digital offers you a tradeoff between bandwidth and quality. Of course
commercial providers will make the choice that maximizes revenue, but just >> as well they are not the sole providers of audio/video content anyway ...
What about complexity of implementation for receivers?
On 18/08/2025 06:50, c186282 wrote:
Hi-Fi has less to do with technical accuracy than
it has to do with how the material is *perceived*
Oh dear. Not for me it wasn't. And isn't
On 8/17/25 5:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Climbing up towards 70dB S/N. But still subject to snap crackle and pop
And rumble flutter and wow.
The brain filtered that out pretty well.
Hi-Fi has less to do with technical accuracy than
it has to do with how the material is *perceived*
On 2025-08-17 03:31, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:20:37 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
"CD-quality audio", sure, but it is still a digital representation of an >>> Analogue waveform which, in theory, has an infinite number of samples
per second.
Don’t believe that nonsense.
It is easy enough to put an oscilloscope on the output of a DAC to prove
that it can reproduce pure waves (like sine waves or more complex
signals)
as cleanly as you like, with no hint of the original sample rate anywhere
in that waveform.
To have that "infinite number of samples" you need an infinite
bandwidth, which analog electronics doesn't have, nor our mechanical-biological sensors have.
On 17/08/2025 14:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-17 03:31, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:And since sound waves are the average of a lot of molecules of air
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:20:37 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
"CD-quality audio", sure, but it is still a digital
representation of an Analogue waveform which, in theory, has an
infinite number of samples per second.
Don’t believe that nonsense.
It is easy enough to put an oscilloscope on the output of a DAC
to prove that it can reproduce pure waves (like sine waves or
more complex signals) as cleanly as you like, with no hint of the
original sample rate anywhere in that waveform.
To have that "infinite number of samples" you need an infinite
bandwidth, which analog electronics doesn't have, nor our
mechanical-biological sensors have.
hitting your ear drums, and cilia the incoming signal is always
digital anyway.
Not much point in sampling to a greater depth than the actual sound
wave intrinsically has.
Marketing has turned hifi from 'more then good enough' to
'perfection'. Which it can never be.
On 2025-08-16 13:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/08/2025 00:55, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 18:26:48 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-08-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
Geopolitics is fiendishly complicated and its not a Gordian
not that can be solved with one slice of a sword.
Even if that sword is called "tariffs"? Aw, damn.
I think I'll make a bowl of popcorn, sit back, and watch. I
don''t know if it will help but I am behind Trump's firing of the
Bureau of Labor Statistics. It's not Trump, it's not recent, and
it doesn't always seem partisan but the pattern for years has
been
June Report: Everything is wonderful!
September, spoken in very quiet tones with no headlines: June's
report has been revised upward/downward. Typically the number of
new jobs is revised downward, inflation is upward. It's very
suspicious the revisions are always in the wrong direction.
Trump is firing everyone he doesn't like. He has the witchfinder
general's nose for 'wokery' .
In 4 years time we should know which ones were in fact vital public
servants and which ones were just pointless fat arsed bureaucrats
eating up public money . And the next gummint wiill quietly
reinstate the vital ones and use the excuse that 'Trump destroyed
the economy' to avoid rehiring the rest.,
<https://edition.cnn.com/2025/08/05/weather/nws-rehiring-doge-layoffs-climate>
Weather Service is now hiring back hundreds of positions that got cut
in the DOGE chaos
By Andrew Freedman Aug 5, 2025
On 8/18/25 1:05 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 15:44:42 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
But look up Joe Hill who was murdered in real life but lived on in the
hearts and minds of the labor organizers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpX8Pg_FTH4
That is not 'I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night...'
Ok, SUPER weird !
Adjust your meds !!!
I'll see your Joe Hill and raise a Frank Little.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Little_(unionist)
Before he was killed in Butte, he, Gurley FLynn and others took part in
the free speech fight in Missoula in 1909. There was a reenactment in
2009
and later Higgins and Front was added as a historic site. I can't
remember
but I think there was a marker on the corner before it became an official
historic site.
Five degrees of Kevin Bacon Flynn was friends with another IWW organizer,
James Connolly. He was from Ireland but lived in Troy, NY for a while,
which is the city closest ot where I grew up. There is a monument to him
there.
https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/celebrating-the-life-of-james-
connolly-in-troy-new-york/
He should have stayed in Troy. He was wounded in the 1916 Easter Rising.
Dying and unable to stand, the Brits carried him out of Kilmainham
Gaol on
a stretcher, tied him to a chair, and shot him. Brilliant PR move.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH6_4VcAzW0
fwiw I even have the t-shirt with the Sabo-Tabby.
https://archive.iww.org/history/icons/black_cat/
and the words "The working class and the employing class have nothing in
common". Know where that comes from? Want some more IWW history? How
about Big Bill Haywood?
As I said I have a certain fondness for the socialists of the early 20th
century. I have nothing but contempt for the woke 'socialists' of the
early 21st century.
Admittedly modern 'socialists' have little to do
with the Old Socialists. Today's are mindless fanatics
by and large.
But, BOTH, were still Marxo-Lefty SOCIALISTS. There
is the underlying fault, the century-long connection.
Error multiplied by error multiplied by error ....
Hmmm ... kinda like analog computers ... can only
take chain calx just SO far :-)
On 8/17/25 5:44 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/08/2025 05:46, c186282 wrote:
On 8/16/25 9:22 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:+1.
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 12:04:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Democracy is not there to represent the will of the people. You were >>>>> lied to.
It does work better than the alternatives, though.
Let’s face it, *every* political system has to represent, in some form, >>>> “the will of the people”. Even totalitarian dictators cannot govern >>>> without the consent of the governed.
Bullshit - you then rule by TERRORIZING the governed.
Stasi. Vlad The Impaler. Stalin. Pol Pot .......
I read a very interesting article, in the Financial Times, reviewing a
book whose thesis was that forms of government were what we would call
emergent properties of the underlying economic system.
So roll back 1000 years and the basis of European wealth was land. And
the Labour to till it.
Protecting land was the job of the armed knights who owned it
(courtesy of the king). They could be rich enough to have a small
army, and armour. this cadre of Lord and his men-at-arms controlled
the peasantry.
Despite the romantic BS, the "knights" were rarely
the friend of The People. They were the heavily-
armed guys who'd ride in and chop-up half the pop
of your village if you didn't bow low enough to
the Lord and pay his taxes.
In short, the kings THUGS.
Hey - money is MONEY and the Lords demanded as
much as possible and beyond.
But another lord with his men at arms and a bunch of motivated
peasants could invade your land and take it. You had to be nice
enough to your peasants so they would fight for you.
The original social contract.
Nah, rarely THAT nice.
You DID what the King/Lord TOLD you to do - OR ELSE.
Were they abusing you, starving you - didn't MATTER ...
you obeyed OR ELSE.
"Cooperative" is super-nice - but through most of
history/location it was rule BY TERROR.
Obey - OR ELSE.
On 8/18/25 5:59 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/08/2025 06:50, c186282 wrote:
Hi-Fi has less to do with technical accuracy than
it has to do with how the material is *perceived*
Oh dear. Not for me it wasn't. And isn't
???
Turn off the spectrum analyzer and just *listen* :-)
On 17/08/2025 11:23 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-17 03:31, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:"infinite number of samples" .... that's what you get when you listen to
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:20:37 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
"CD-quality audio", sure, but it is still a digital representation
of an
Analogue waveform which, in theory, has an infinite number of samples
per second.
Don’t believe that nonsense.
It is easy enough to put an oscilloscope on the output of a DAC to prove >>> that it can reproduce pure waves (like sine waves or more complex
signals)
as cleanly as you like, with no hint of the original sample rate
anywhere
in that waveform.
To have that "infinite number of samples" you need an infinite
bandwidth, which analog electronics doesn't have, nor our
mechanical-biological sensors have.
the REAL Sound!!
On 17/08/2025 11:32 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/08/2025 14:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-17 03:31, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:And since sound waves are the average of a lot of molecules of air
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:20:37 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
"CD-quality audio", sure, but it is still a digital
representation of an Analogue waveform which, in theory, has an
infinite number of samples per second.
Don’t believe that nonsense.
It is easy enough to put an oscilloscope on the output of a DAC
to prove that it can reproduce pure waves (like sine waves or
more complex signals) as cleanly as you like, with no hint of the
original sample rate anywhere in that waveform.
To have that "infinite number of samples" you need an infinite
bandwidth, which analog electronics doesn't have, nor our
mechanical-biological sensors have.
hitting your ear drums, and cilia the incoming signal is always
digital anyway.
Not much point in sampling to a greater depth than the actual sound
wave intrinsically has.
Marketing has turned hifi from 'more then good enough' to
'perfection'. Which it can never be.
Correct. If you are listening to just one frequency, then I suppose 'sampling' could do a reasonable job, but as voice and music are,
usually, made up of many frequencies and 'sampled' SIMPLIFICATION can
not be as good as the original!!
Sure he is an asshole.
But he is also POTUS. And he is stupid enough to be bold.
That means that stuff is happening. Most of it will be crap. And will be reversed. Some of it unexpectedly will be beneficial,.
Trump is less evil than venal and completely clueless.
On 2025-08-17, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Sure he is an asshole.
But he is also POTUS. And he is stupid enough to be bold.
That means that stuff is happening. Most of it will be crap. And will be
reversed. Some of it unexpectedly will be beneficial,.
Trump is less evil than venal and completely clueless.
However, he's also vengeful.
Most only ask for the regulation of various portions
of Capitalism which has servered only a portion of the
society. Polluting industries are generally established
in poorer communities and a frend on mine years ago
advocated for requiring managers and owners to live
in the same area as their plants.
Old fridges in the USA - "Norge" ... the old ones
had the radiator coil ON TOP in plain sight.
Not TOO long ago went into a Country Store and
they HAD one - it STILL worked ! Owner claimed
he'd NEVER had it serviced.
Wow.
That's how good things CAN be.
Hey, STILL hear the term "Alien Invasion" kinda often.
Apparently the space people are assumed to think exactly
like WE do. This COULD have bad effects if They ever
do land in Central Park.
On 18/08/2025 5:09 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-16 13:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:(Not having read the artical ...) Does this mean those 'hundreds' got a
On 16/08/2025 00:55, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 18:26:48 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-08-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
Geopolitics is fiendishly complicated and its not a Gordian
not that can be solved with one slice of a sword.
Even if that sword is called "tariffs"? Aw, damn.
I think I'll make a bowl of popcorn, sit back, and watch. I
don''t know if it will help but I am behind Trump's firing of the
Bureau of Labor Statistics. It's not Trump, it's not recent, and
it doesn't always seem partisan but the pattern for years has
been
June Report: Everything is wonderful!
September, spoken in very quiet tones with no headlines: June's
report has been revised upward/downward. Typically the number of
new jobs is revised downward, inflation is upward. It's very
suspicious the revisions are always in the wrong direction.
Trump is firing everyone he doesn't like. He has the witchfinder
general's nose for 'wokery' .
In 4 years time we should know which ones were in fact vital public
servants and which ones were just pointless fat arsed bureaucrats
eating up public money . And the next gummint wiill quietly
reinstate the vital ones and use the excuse that 'Trump destroyed
the economy' to avoid rehiring the rest.,
<https://edition.cnn.com/2025/08/05/weather/nws-rehiring-doge-layoffs-
climate>
Weather Service is now hiring back hundreds of positions that got cut
in the DOGE chaos
By Andrew Freedman Aug 5, 2025
final separation package .... and are now being re-employed back into
their old positions with old pays??
What a Bargain for the U.S. of A. people!!
«“How much time/money is it going to cost to train a bunch of new people when we had already-trained people in place?” asked another NOAA
official, who requested anonymity because they were not authorized to
talk to the media. It is possible that some of the new hires will have
been previously trained employees who were let go in the DOGE cuts.»
On 17/08/2025 22:29, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 21:02:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"To allow room for more stations on the medium wave broadcast band in
the United States, in June 1989 the FCC adopted a National Radio
Systems Committee (NRSC) standard that limited maximum transmitted
*audio* bandwidth to 10.2 kHz, limiting *occupied* bandwidth to 20.4
kHz. The former audio limitation was 15 kHz resulting in bandwidth of
30 kHz."
So channel spacing in the USA is in fact 20Khz
In practice the wings from the center frequency are down so many db
they do not matter unless you're in front of a spectrum analyzer.
Oh dear. Well you cant argue with ignorance
On 18/08/2025 05:53, c186282 wrote:
Rwanda is STILL going on ... except now it's backing lethal CongoRussia and China will be in there somewhere. They always are.
rebels.
On the whole, "Africa" is still a HUGE mess -
kinda like medieval Europe - petty kings and warlords and rebels
........
No, it actually isn't.
Africa is massively corrupt - that goes without saying - but it has
resources and it recognises it needs intelligence and skills and the
level of education and sophistication is rising
Check this out., This is a South African. I can't imagine any African American saying this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsdsK-Am0WY
On 8/18/25 1:13 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2025 00:41:56 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 00:43:13 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Q: Why do the British drink warm beer?
A: Lucas makes refrigerators too.
I believe a nickname for Lucas was “the Prince of darkness” ...
It was. When a little red light on the dashboard of my Sprite came on I
was sure what it meant at first. It was a signal that the Prince had
left the building. Thankfully Lucas didn't make the battery so I
managed to get home.
Warm beer is OK. More taste actually.
But was never that fond of beer.
On Mon, 18 Aug 2025 10:56:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/08/2025 05:53, c186282 wrote:
Rwanda is STILL going on ... except now it's backing lethal CongoRussia and China will be in there somewhere. They always are.
rebels.
On the whole, "Africa" is still a HUGE mess -
kinda like medieval Europe - petty kings and warlords and rebels
........
No, it actually isn't.
Africa is massively corrupt - that goes without saying - but it has
resources and it recognises it needs intelligence and skills and the
level of education and sophistication is rising
Check this out., This is a South African. I can't imagine any African
American saying this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsdsK-Am0WY
The slavers may not have been able to round up the smart ones.
On Mon, 18 Aug 2025 10:39:56 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/08/2025 22:29, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 21:02:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"To allow room for more stations on the medium wave broadcast band in
the United States, in June 1989 the FCC adopted a National Radio
Systems Committee (NRSC) standard that limited maximum transmitted
*audio* bandwidth to 10.2 kHz, limiting *occupied* bandwidth to 20.4
kHz. The former audio limitation was 15 kHz resulting in bandwidth of
30 kHz."
So channel spacing in the USA is in fact 20Khz
In practice the wings from the center frequency are down so many db
they do not matter unless you're in front of a spectrum analyzer.
Oh dear. Well you cant argue with ignorance
You are absolutely correct. I should ignore you.
On 2025-08-17, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Sure he is an asshole.
But he is also POTUS. And he is stupid enough to be bold.
That means that stuff is happening. Most of it will be crap. And will
be reversed. Some of it unexpectedly will be beneficial,.
Trump is less evil than venal and completely clueless.
However, he's also vengeful.
On 16/08/2025 14:47, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Unfortunately, for very many people it is exactly that.
Le 16-08-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
You have a touching faith in The Science.
That's the misunderstood answer to scientists from believers. They
believe that science is a belief like any other religion, when it's
not.
If you are listening to just one frequency, then I suppose
'sampling' could do a reasonable job, but as voice and music are,
usually, made up of many frequencies and 'sampled' SIMPLIFICATION
can not be as good as the original!!
"infinite number of samples" .... that's what you get when you
listen to the REAL Sound!!
On 17/08/2025 22:39, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 02:35:48 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 8/17/25 2:01 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 12:49:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Never Mind. It will be miss Dental Treatment herself 'Great news, my >>>>> IQ tests cane back negative' Alexandria Ocasio Cortez.
The tough Bronx chick who grew up on the mean streets of Yorktown
Heights?
I really don't know the English equivalent of that punchline.
Hmmm ... may not quite BE one ...
However, UK clones of AOC ... HOPE there are no equivs
I meant I don't know enough about England to pick two communities, one
where you don't want to be (the Bronx) and one that is pleasant
suburbia (Yorktown) that are about 45 miles from each other.
You can do better than that. The tough East End chick who grew up in Hampstead.
On 17/08/2025 11:23 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-17 03:31, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:"infinite number of samples" .... that's what you get when you listen to
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:20:37 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
"CD-quality audio", sure, but it is still a digital representation of
an Analogue waveform which, in theory, has an infinite number of
samples per second.
Don’t believe that nonsense.
It is easy enough to put an oscilloscope on the output of a DAC to
prove that it can reproduce pure waves (like sine waves or more
complex signals)
as cleanly as you like, with no hint of the original sample rate
anywhere in that waveform.
To have that "infinite number of samples" you need an infinite
bandwidth, which analog electronics doesn't have, nor our
mechanical-biological sensors have.
the REAL Sound!!
One of the early experiments with Socialist in the USA
was imported from the UK and it failed miserable because the
participants were not drawn from the working class but from the classes susceptible to taking not to giving or working.
On 2025-08-18, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Most only ask for the regulation of various portions
of Capitalism which has servered only a portion of the society.
Polluting industries are generally established in poorer communities
and a frend on mine years ago advocated for requiring managers and
owners to live in the same area as their plants.
Someone once suggested an interesting twist on this:
for plants on a river or stream, require their water intakes to be
downstream of the exhaust.
Doesn’t matter what people believe. The interesting thing about
science is, it works whether you believe in it or not.
On Mon, 18 Aug 2025 22:28:01 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
On 17/08/2025 11:23 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-17 03:31, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:"infinite number of samples" .... that's what you get when you listen to
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:20:37 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
"CD-quality audio", sure, but it is still a digital representation of >>>>> an Analogue waveform which, in theory, has an infinite number of
samples per second.
Don’t believe that nonsense.
It is easy enough to put an oscilloscope on the output of a DAC to
prove that it can reproduce pure waves (like sine waves or more
complex signals)
as cleanly as you like, with no hint of the original sample rate
anywhere in that waveform.
To have that "infinite number of samples" you need an infinite
bandwidth, which analog electronics doesn't have, nor our
mechanical-biological sensors have.
the REAL Sound!!
I feel Zeno is going to step in soon, or maybe Nagarjuna.
Same with our natural sampling rate which makes music
recorded or live sound continuous. I once worked on the accounts for an expert audio engineer and I learned a few things including that wealth
does not guarantee a keen ear. And that a listener may believe many
things about cables and other connectors which are not supported by any evidence.
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 15:30:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/08/2025 14:47, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Unfortunately, for very many people it is exactly that.
Le 16-08-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
You have a touching faith in The Science.
That's the misunderstood answer to scientists from believers. They
believe that science is a belief like any other religion, when it's
not.
Doesn’t matter what people believe. The interesting thing about science
is, it works whether you believe in it or not.
Slaves were taken by many means sometimes betrayed by relatives
who wanted to get people with a claim to power out of the way. Sometimes captured in Tribal wars or taken in the conquest of villages. Then and
now there are still the Arabian slavers who sold across the sea and
North to the Arabian overlords.
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 01:03:56 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 15:30:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/08/2025 14:47, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Unfortunately, for very many people it is exactly that.
Le 16-08-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
You have a touching faith in The Science.
That's the misunderstood answer to scientists from believers. They
believe that science is a belief like any other religion, when it's
not.
Doesn’t matter what people believe. The interesting thing about science
is, it works whether you believe in it or not.
Engineering works. In a technical university with fledgling engineers and scientists that was a hot debate topic.
On Mon, 18 Aug 2025 18:00:30 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Slaves were taken by many means sometimes betrayed by relatives
who wanted to get people with a claim to power out of the way. Sometimes
captured in Tribal wars or taken in the conquest of villages. Then and
now there are still the Arabian slavers who sold across the sea and
North to the Arabian overlords.
Then there was the slave market in Dublin. I have no doubt some of the product consisted of inconvenient people the Irish wanted to get rid of.
One thing I find interesting is the Cherokee used slaves that they had captured from neighboring tribes. After the Europeans arrived they sound
it preferable to purchase African slaves and later took them with them on
the Trail of Tears to Oklahoma. They're still squabbling about the status
of the descendants.
The related question is why, with a continent full of potential slaves,
did the colonists choose to import Africans.
On 18/08/2025 3:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 8/17/25 5:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Climbing up towards 70dB S/N. But still subject to snap crackle and pop
And rumble flutter and wow.
The brain filtered that out pretty well.
Hi-Fi has less to do with technical accuracy than
it has to do with how the material is *perceived*
Correct. And speaking about "perceived" .... I can remember listening to
an album (one of those big black discs) put out by 'Kraftwerk' called 'Autobahn'. I was lying on the Lounge-room floor with headphones on and, when the 'Autobahn' tune starts, the 'music' (sound of a vehicle) is way
off in the distance in one ear. Slowly the 'music' (vehicle noise) gets louder and louder and LOUDER then crosses to the other ear ..... then
gets softer and softer as the vehicle 'disappears' away back into the distance.
Just about sent me 'Cross-eyed' ever time I listened to it!! NICE!!
Bliss, even.
(Thanks for the memories!! ;-) )
On 17/08/2025 11:32 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/08/2025 14:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-17 03:31, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:And since sound waves are the average of a lot of molecules of air
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:20:37 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
"CD-quality audio", sure, but it is still a digital
representation of an Analogue waveform which, in theory, has an
infinite number of samples per second.
Don’t believe that nonsense.
It is easy enough to put an oscilloscope on the output of a DAC
to prove that it can reproduce pure waves (like sine waves or
more complex signals) as cleanly as you like, with no hint of the
original sample rate anywhere in that waveform.
To have that "infinite number of samples" you need an infinite
bandwidth, which analog electronics doesn't have, nor our
mechanical-biological sensors have.
hitting your ear drums, and cilia the incoming signal is always
digital anyway.
Not much point in sampling to a greater depth than the actual sound
wave intrinsically has.
Marketing has turned hifi from 'more then good enough' to
'perfection'. Which it can never be.
Correct. If you are listening to just one frequency, then I suppose 'sampling' could do a reasonable job, but as voice and music are,
usually, made up of many frequencies and 'sampled' SIMPLIFICATION can
not be as good as the original!!
On 18/08/2025 5:09 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-16 13:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:(Not having read the artical ...) Does this mean those 'hundreds' got a
On 16/08/2025 00:55, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 18:26:48 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-08-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
Geopolitics is fiendishly complicated and its not a Gordian
not that can be solved with one slice of a sword.
Even if that sword is called "tariffs"? Aw, damn.
I think I'll make a bowl of popcorn, sit back, and watch. I
don''t know if it will help but I am behind Trump's firing of the
Bureau of Labor Statistics. It's not Trump, it's not recent, and
it doesn't always seem partisan but the pattern for years has
been
June Report: Everything is wonderful!
September, spoken in very quiet tones with no headlines: June's
report has been revised upward/downward. Typically the number of
new jobs is revised downward, inflation is upward. It's very
suspicious the revisions are always in the wrong direction.
Trump is firing everyone he doesn't like. He has the witchfinder
general's nose for 'wokery' .
In 4 years time we should know which ones were in fact vital public
servants and which ones were just pointless fat arsed bureaucrats
eating up public money . And the next gummint wiill quietly
reinstate the vital ones and use the excuse that 'Trump destroyed
the economy' to avoid rehiring the rest.,
<https://edition.cnn.com/2025/08/05/weather/nws-rehiring-doge-layoffs-climate>
Weather Service is now hiring back hundreds of positions that got cut
in the DOGE chaos
By Andrew Freedman Aug 5, 2025
final separation package .... and are now being re-employed back into
their old positions with old pays??
What a Bargain for the U.S. of A. people!!
On 8/17/25 22:09, c186282 wrote:
On 8/17/25 5:44 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/08/2025 05:46, c186282 wrote:
On 8/16/25 9:22 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:+1.
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 12:04:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Democracy is not there to represent the will of the people. You were >>>>>> lied to.
It does work better than the alternatives, though.
Let’s face it, *every* political system has to represent, in some >>>>> form,
“the will of the people”. Even totalitarian dictators cannot govern >>>>> without the consent of the governed.
Bullshit - you then rule by TERRORIZING the governed.
Stasi. Vlad The Impaler. Stalin. Pol Pot .......
I read a very interesting article, in the Financial Times, reviewing
a book whose thesis was that forms of government were what we would
call emergent properties of the underlying economic system.
So roll back 1000 years and the basis of European wealth was land.
And the Labour to till it.
Protecting land was the job of the armed knights who owned it
(courtesy of the king). They could be rich enough to have a small
army, and armour. this cadre of Lord and his men-at-arms controlled
the peasantry.
Despite the romantic BS, the "knights" were rarely
the friend of The People. They were the heavily-
armed guys who'd ride in and chop-up half the pop
of your village if you didn't bow low enough to
the Lord and pay his taxes.
Surlu was originally Sirly and applied to the behavior
of knights. Many of whom acted like criminal muscle.
On 18/08/2025 13:28, Daniel70 wrote:
On 17/08/2025 11:23 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-17 03:31, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:"infinite number of samples" .... that's what you get when you listen
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:20:37 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
"CD-quality audio", sure, but it is still a digital representation
of an
Analogue waveform which, in theory, has an infinite number of samples >>>>> per second.
Don’t believe that nonsense.
It is easy enough to put an oscilloscope on the output of a DAC to
prove
that it can reproduce pure waves (like sine waves or more complex
signals)
as cleanly as you like, with no hint of the original sample rate
anywhere
in that waveform.
To have that "infinite number of samples" you need an infinite
bandwidth, which analog electronics doesn't have, nor our
mechanical-biological sensors have.
to the REAL Sound!!
No. it isn't.
Perhaps a trip back to physics classes and 'Brownian motion' will
enlighten you
On 2025-08-18, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
Old fridges in the USA - "Norge" ... the old ones
had the radiator coil ON TOP in plain sight.
Not TOO long ago went into a Country Store and
they HAD one - it STILL worked ! Owner claimed
he'd NEVER had it serviced.
Wow.
That's how good things CAN be.
Can you remember where that store is? We have to
dispatch an adjustment team out there immediately.
Kindly forget that you read this message.
On 2025-08-18, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
Hey, STILL hear the term "Alien Invasion" kinda often.
Apparently the space people are assumed to think exactly
like WE do. This COULD have bad effects if They ever
do land in Central Park.
Mars Attacks!
Where's Slim Whitman when you need him?
On 8/18/25 20:22, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 01:03:56 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 15:30:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/08/2025 14:47, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Unfortunately, for very many people it is exactly that.
Le 16-08-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
You have a touching faith in The Science.
That's the misunderstood answer to scientists from believers. They
believe that science is a belief like any other religion, when it's
not.
Doesn’t matter what people believe. The interesting thing about science >>> is, it works whether you believe in it or not.
Engineering works. In a technical university with fledgling engineers and
scientists that was a hot debate topic.
And bumblebees keep on flying despite analysis to the contrary.
a listener
may believe many things about cables and other connectors which
are not supported by any evidence.
The related question is why, with a continent full of potential slaves,
did the colonists choose to import Africans.
On 8/18/25 20:22, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 01:03:56 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 15:30:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/08/2025 14:47, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Unfortunately, for very many people it is exactly that.
Le 16-08-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
You have a touching faith in The Science.
That's the misunderstood answer to scientists from believers. They
believe that science is a belief like any other religion, when it's
not.
Doesn’t matter what people believe. The interesting thing about science >>> is, it works whether you believe in it or not.
Engineering works. In a technical university with fledgling engineers and
scientists that was a hot debate topic.
And bumblebees keep on flying despite analysis to the contrary.
bliss
On 8/18/25 8:16 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/08/2025 3:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 8/17/25 5:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Climbing up towards 70dB S/N. But still subject to snap crackle and pop >>>>
And rumble flutter and wow.
The brain filtered that out pretty well.
Hi-Fi has less to do with technical accuracy than
it has to do with how the material is *perceived*
Correct. And speaking about "perceived" .... I can remember listening
to an album (one of those big black discs) put out by 'Kraftwerk'
called 'Autobahn'. I was lying on the Lounge-room floor with
headphones on and, when the 'Autobahn' tune starts, the 'music' (sound
of a vehicle) is way off in the distance in one ear. Slowly the
'music' (vehicle noise) gets louder and louder and LOUDER then crosses
to the other ear ..... then gets softer and softer as the vehicle
'disappears' away back into the distance.
Just about sent me 'Cross-eyed' ever time I listened to it!! NICE!!
Bliss, even.
(Thanks for the memories!! ;-) )
Spectral readings and tech specs do NOT define
what "sounds great".
We're "goo-ware" - not hardware.--
And then
each brand/model of AMP and PREAMP adds its own
subtle color.
I remember the older quality transistor AB amps.
"Technically" they were probably very good, but
the sound just seemed too "hard".
True. Human senses - audio, visual or whatever - do
not have "infinite resolution".
What IS there is constantly influenced, biased, by a
bunch of other subtle things. There is no such thing
as an 'authentic experience' - it's all dependent,
processes and sub-processed, colored and biased,
compressed and tweaked as best to fit our little brains.
The Buddha was kind of right when he said All Is
Illusion. (note Plato's Allegory Of The Cave ...
similar ultimate conclusion, but, after what
happened to Socrates, he didn't dare finish the
thought).
At very best, well, we're "Goo-Ware" ... evolved to
best fit THIS kind of world.
On 8/18/25 8:16 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/08/2025 3:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 8/17/25 5:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Climbing up towards 70dB S/N. But still subject to snap crackle and pop >>>>
And rumble flutter and wow.
The brain filtered that out pretty well.
Hi-Fi has less to do with technical accuracy than
it has to do with how the material is *perceived*
Correct. And speaking about "perceived" .... I can remember listening
to an album (one of those big black discs) put out by 'Kraftwerk'
called 'Autobahn'. I was lying on the Lounge-room floor with
headphones on and, when the 'Autobahn' tune starts, the 'music' (sound
of a vehicle) is way off in the distance in one ear. Slowly the
'music' (vehicle noise) gets louder and louder and LOUDER then crosses
to the other ear ..... then gets softer and softer as the vehicle
'disappears' away back into the distance.
Just about sent me 'Cross-eyed' ever time I listened to it!! NICE!!
Bliss, even.
(Thanks for the memories!! ;-) )
Spectral readings and tech specs do NOT define
what "sounds great".
We're "goo-ware" - not hardware.
On Mon, 18 Aug 2025 18:00:30 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Slaves were taken by many means sometimes betrayed by relatives
who wanted to get people with a claim to power out of the way. Sometimes
captured in Tribal wars or taken in the conquest of villages. Then and
now there are still the Arabian slavers who sold across the sea and
North to the Arabian overlords.
Then there was the slave market in Dublin. I have no doubt some of the product consisted of inconvenient people the Irish wanted to get rid of.
One thing I find interesting is the Cherokee used slaves that they had captured from neighboring tribes. After the Europeans arrived they sound
it preferable to purchase African slaves and later took them with them on
the Trail of Tears to Oklahoma. They're still squabbling about the status
of the descendants.
The related question is why, with a continent full of potential slaves,
did the colonists choose to import Africans.
On 2025-08-19 07:33, c186282 wrote:
On 8/18/25 8:16 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/08/2025 3:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 8/17/25 5:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Climbing up towards 70dB S/N. But still subject to snap crackle and >>>>> pop
And rumble flutter and wow.
The brain filtered that out pretty well.
Hi-Fi has less to do with technical accuracy than
it has to do with how the material is *perceived*
Correct. And speaking about "perceived" .... I can remember listening
to an album (one of those big black discs) put out by 'Kraftwerk'
called 'Autobahn'. I was lying on the Lounge-room floor with
headphones on and, when the 'Autobahn' tune starts, the 'music'
(sound of a vehicle) is way off in the distance in one ear. Slowly
the 'music' (vehicle noise) gets louder and louder and LOUDER then
crosses to the other ear ..... then gets softer and softer as the
vehicle 'disappears' away back into the distance.
Just about sent me 'Cross-eyed' ever time I listened to it!! NICE!!
Bliss, even.
(Thanks for the memories!! ;-) )
Spectral readings and tech specs do NOT define
what "sounds great".
We're "goo-ware" - not hardware.
Surely we can define what should sound great on our measurement
instruments. And once the rules are defined, that's repeatable and objective.
On 2025-08-19 07:33, c186282 wrote:
On 8/18/25 8:16 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/08/2025 3:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 8/17/25 5:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Climbing up towards 70dB S/N. But still subject to snap crackle and >>>>> pop
And rumble flutter and wow.
The brain filtered that out pretty well.
Hi-Fi has less to do with technical accuracy than
it has to do with how the material is *perceived*
Correct. And speaking about "perceived" .... I can remember listening
to an album (one of those big black discs) put out by 'Kraftwerk'
called 'Autobahn'. I was lying on the Lounge-room floor with
headphones on and, when the 'Autobahn' tune starts, the 'music'
(sound of a vehicle) is way off in the distance in one ear. Slowly
the 'music' (vehicle noise) gets louder and louder and LOUDER then
crosses to the other ear ..... then gets softer and softer as the
vehicle 'disappears' away back into the distance.
Just about sent me 'Cross-eyed' ever time I listened to it!! NICE!!
Bliss, even.
(Thanks for the memories!! ;-) )
Spectral readings and tech specs do NOT define
what "sounds great".
We're "goo-ware" - not hardware.
Surely we can define what should sound great on our measurement
instruments. And once the rules are defined, that's repeatable and objective.
Surely we can define what should sound great on our measurement
instruments. And once the rules are defined, that's repeatable and
objective.
'Cept your 'rules", Carlos, would probably be different to my "rules"! 😜
Look at "QuickSilver" ... basic, very good, and
semi-affordable. I've got a 40w set out in my
storage shed, but you need high-efficiency
speakers for that and, at my age, it's just
not worth it.
On 8/18/25 12:51 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/08/2025 13:28, Daniel70 wrote:
On 17/08/2025 11:23 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-17 03:31, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:"infinite number of samples" .... that's what you get when you
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:20:37 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
"CD-quality audio", sure, but it is still a digital
representation of an Analogue waveform which, in theory,
has an infinite number of samples per second.
Don’t believe that nonsense.
It is easy enough to put an oscilloscope on the output of a
DAC to prove that it can reproduce pure waves (like sine
waves or more complex signals) as cleanly as you like, with
no hint of the original sample rate anywhere in that
waveform.
To have that "infinite number of samples" you need an infinite
bandwidth, which analog electronics doesn't have, nor our
mechanical-biological sensors have.
listen to the REAL Sound!!
No. it isn't.
Perhaps a trip back to physics classes and 'Brownian motion' will
enlighten you
True. Human senses - audio, visual or whatever - do not have
"infinite resolution".
What IS there is constantly influenced, biased, by a bunch of other
subtle things. There is no such thing as an 'authentic experience' -
it's all dependent, processes and sub-processed, colored and biased, compressed and tweaked as best to fit our little brains.
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 12:09:23 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Some UPS claim that the batteries last 4 years, but in my experience
they last 2. There is the possibility that brand name batteries are
actually better and last 4 years.
Many UPS don't say the status of the battery, you have to actually test
them manually with a stop watch. They may have a display, but that one
may be difficult to see when the UPS is out of sight. Only some UPS can
be connected to a computer for monitoring.
I've had good luck with APC. I haven't set it up but it does have a USB connection for monitoring. Their PowerChute software specifies RHEL or
SUSE now instead of only Windows but I assume there is a general Linux solution.
One thing we found at work where the larger sample size meant more
instances of bad batteries is a box plugged into the wall will survive a brief flicker; one plugged into a UPS with a bad battery goes down hard.
On Mon, 18 Aug 2025 22:28:01 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
"infinite number of samples" .... that's what you get when you
listen to the REAL Sound!!
But you don’t have an infinite number of audio-sensitive cells in your ears, or an infinite bandwidth of neural connection to your brain, or
an infinite number of processing cells in your auditory cortex ...
what you hear in your head is nowhere near the full reality of sound.
That’s why “lossy” audio compression algorithms work: they throw away the stuff your brain is incapable of noticing anyway.--
On 2025-08-18 14:54, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/08/2025 5:09 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-16 13:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
(Not having read the artical ...) Does this mean those 'hundreds' got aTrump is firing everyone he doesn't like. He has the witchfinder
general's nose for 'wokery' .
In 4 years time we should know which ones were in fact vital public
servants and which ones were just pointless fat arsed bureaucrats
eating up public money . And the next gummint wiill quietly
reinstate the vital ones and use the excuse that 'Trump destroyed
the economy' to avoid rehiring the rest.,
<https://edition.cnn.com/2025/08/05/weather/nws-rehiring-doge-layoffs- climate>
Weather Service is now hiring back hundreds of positions that got cut
in the DOGE chaos
By Andrew Freedman Aug 5, 2025
final separation package .... and are now being re-employed back into
their old positions with old pays??
What a Bargain for the U.S. of A. people!!
The article says they have to be trained for the job, so they are new people, which is more expensive than rehiring the old people, I guess.
Maybe the new people are cheaper, but they will not be effective till trained.
«“How much time/money is it going to cost to train a bunch of new people when we had already-trained people in place?” asked another NOAA
official, who requested anonymity because they were not authorized to
talk to the media. It is possible that some of the new hires will have
been previously trained employees who were let go in the DOGE cuts.»
On 19/08/2025 11:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-19 07:33, c186282 wrote:I spent 15 years designing audio.
On 8/18/25 8:16 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/08/2025 3:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 8/17/25 5:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Climbing up towards 70dB S/N. But still subject to snap crackle
and pop
And rumble flutter and wow.
The brain filtered that out pretty well.
Hi-Fi has less to do with technical accuracy than
it has to do with how the material is *perceived*
Correct. And speaking about "perceived" .... I can remember
listening to an album (one of those big black discs) put out by
'Kraftwerk' called 'Autobahn'. I was lying on the Lounge-room floor
with headphones on and, when the 'Autobahn' tune starts, the
'music' (sound of a vehicle) is way off in the distance in one ear.
Slowly the 'music' (vehicle noise) gets louder and louder and LOUDER
then crosses to the other ear ..... then gets softer and softer as
the vehicle 'disappears' away back into the distance.
Just about sent me 'Cross-eyed' ever time I listened to it!! NICE!!
Bliss, even.
(Thanks for the memories!! ;-) )
Spectral readings and tech specs do NOT define
what "sounds great".
We're "goo-ware" - not hardware.
Surely we can define what should sound great on our measurement
instruments. And once the rules are defined, that's repeatable and
objective.
In the end I could identify issues just by listening
- If the sound is gritty or edgy, you have crossover distortion or a
failing loudspeaker.
- if the sound is muddy and you hear the music, but not the individual instruments, you have intermodulation distortion. This is what happens
in your ears as you get older making it hard to pick out one
conversation in a noisy place. In general there isn't much of that in
modern electronics: It's likely to be a shitty loudspeaker.
- if the cymbals and triangles and hi hats smash, but don't ring, your
cloth eared sound engineer has overloaded the recording medium. Very
easy to do with old tape machines, and VU meters, not so with digital
- If your FM stereo sounds slightly weird right at the extreme treble,
you don't have enough bandwidth in the IF strip. Most FM is in fact like this. I built a really good wideband FM receiver, but it suffered from
co channel interference in continental Europe..
-if your bass is boxy, the loudspeaker is trying to sound like it has
bass when it doesn't.
- if the sound sounds like cardboard, that's because it is. You are
hearing the loudspeaker cone, not the music.
In short real hifi is that you can hear every instrument clearly and separately, and especially every single voice in a choral work. Top end loudspeakers designed for classical are designed like that. Very flat frequency response, very low resonances in the cabinet and loudspeakers
and very low intermodulation distortions, You hear te instruments, not
the music and absolutely not the loudspeaker
Loudspeakers for country jazz rock and pop concentrate more on
delivering a good bass, and since there aren't many instruments, tend to generate a 'sound' which will depend on the compromises they made. Cheap loudspeakers you hear the loudspeakers, not the music, and absolutely
not the instruments.
It two loudspeakers 'sound different', at least one of them is shit. At the top end yiou cant tell them apart really.
As far as amplifiers go, I stopped designing them when it became clear
that there were in all cases indistinguishable and way more than good enough. Around the mid 1980s transistor technology was so advanced that
you could really design essentially 'perfect' amplifiers.
Vinyl disc amps were what they were, and we pushed the limits of low
noise transistors till they were in the end quieter than the hiss on the records. FM radio in the end we were limited by the conflicting
requirements of adjacent channel reception and high bandwidth with
smooth phase response to get HF stereo to an acceptable quality.
AM radio was as good as it could be made, which was never, in Europe, Hi
fi.
Digital sound pushed the available quality up massively. In particular digital mastering made a huge difference to recorded quality- even the
best 1" tape at 30IPS is nowhere near a 12 bit, let alone 16 bit
recording at 44 or 48Khz sampling rate.
The maximum dynamic range between the needle jumping out of the groove
and chattering, and the hiss on the electronics and the vinyl itself was about 75dB on a vinyl record
CD will do 96dB, and with clever processing sound even better. up to 120dB.
CDs had one flaw initially - crossover distortion, due to the design of
the DACS, And sometimes a bit of weirdness in the high treble due to the need to filter out the sampling frequency with cheap filters.Today
that's all gone. They too, are essentially perfect.
Unfortunately the quality of music is rubbish today. Crudely constructed
pop songs featuring nubile singers in skimpy clothing, done on a
shoestring and compressed down to be listened to on an earbud via a massively compressed MP3 stream is nothing whatever to do with hi
fidelity audio.
The final message is, trust your ears, not the advertising, listen to choral music as the absolute best test, and forget about vinyl, pre amps
and power amps, gold plated cables and spend all the money you have on
the very best loudspeakers you can afford.
The test instruments confirm what you can hear, but no one has access to test instruments and what they put in magazines is just the most basic
shit.
On 17/08/2025 09:08, c186282 wrote:
"AM" is 'fair' for music ... not like you have
McIntosh amps/speakers in your car. It is, well,
"adequate".
The main prob is NOISE ...
That is because your RF bandwidth is only as wide as your audio bandwidth,
And in Europe its SHIT for music, unless you are deaf. 4kHz is the
absolute limit
(We have 9kHz channel spacing)
Even FM in Europe is a bit restricted as IIRC they crammed channels in
at 200kHz spacing. Its not enough.
For decent stereo you need 400kHz...
On 19/08/2025 11:10 am, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2025 22:28:01 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
"infinite number of samples" .... that's what you get when you
listen to the REAL Sound!!
But you don’t have an infinite number of audio-sensitive cells in your
ears, or an infinite bandwidth of neural connection to your brain, or
an infinite number of processing cells in your auditory cortex ...
what you hear in your head is nowhere near the full reality of sound.
But what I hear IS what I hear .... and it's either RIGHT or it's not!!
That’s why “lossy” audio compression algorithms work: they throw away >> the stuff your brain is incapable of noticing anyway.
On 2025-08-17 11:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/08/2025 09:08, c186282 wrote:
"AM" is 'fair' for music ... not like you have
McIntosh amps/speakers in your car. It is, well,
"adequate".
The main prob is NOISE ...
That is because your RF bandwidth is only as wide as your audio
bandwidth,
And in Europe its SHIT for music, unless you are deaf. 4kHz is the
absolute limit
(We have 9kHz channel spacing)
Even FM in Europe is a bit restricted as IIRC they crammed channels in
at 200kHz spacing. Its not enough.
For decent stereo you need 400kHz...
What about digital radio?
On 19/08/2025 13:24, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-17 11:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:I never worked on it.
On 17/08/2025 09:08, c186282 wrote:
"AM" is 'fair' for music ... not like you have
McIntosh amps/speakers in your car. It is, well,
"adequate".
The main prob is NOISE ...
That is because your RF bandwidth is only as wide as your audio
bandwidth,
And in Europe its SHIT for music, unless you are deaf. 4kHz is the
absolute limit
(We have 9kHz channel spacing)
Even FM in Europe is a bit restricted as IIRC they crammed channels
in at 200kHz spacing. Its not enough.
For decent stereo you need 400kHz...
What about digital radio?
The thing about digital audio that's run through a compression algorithm
is that the quality and bandwidth needed will depend on the material
being compressed
You can get a 100% hifi silence using no bandwidth at all.
On 8/18/25 8:54 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/08/2025 5:09 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-16 13:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:(Not having read the artical ...) Does this mean those 'hundreds' got a
On 16/08/2025 00:55, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 18:26:48 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-08-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
Geopolitics is fiendishly complicated and its not a Gordian
not that can be solved with one slice of a sword.
Even if that sword is called "tariffs"? Aw, damn.
I think I'll make a bowl of popcorn, sit back, and watch. I
don''t know if it will help but I am behind Trump's firing of the
Bureau of Labor Statistics. It's not Trump, it's not recent, and
it doesn't always seem partisan but the pattern for years has
been
June Report: Everything is wonderful!
September, spoken in very quiet tones with no headlines: June's
report has been revised upward/downward. Typically the number of
new jobs is revised downward, inflation is upward. It's very
suspicious the revisions are always in the wrong direction.
Trump is firing everyone he doesn't like. He has the witchfinder
general's nose for 'wokery' .
In 4 years time we should know which ones were in fact vital public
servants and which ones were just pointless fat arsed bureaucrats
eating up public money . And the next gummint wiill quietly
reinstate the vital ones and use the excuse that 'Trump destroyed
the economy' to avoid rehiring the rest.,
<https://edition.cnn.com/2025/08/05/weather/nws-rehiring-doge-layoffs-climate>
Weather Service is now hiring back hundreds of positions that got cut
in the DOGE chaos
By Andrew Freedman Aug 5, 2025
final separation package .... and are now being re-employed back into
their old positions with old pays??
What a Bargain for the U.S. of A. people!!
Well, 'return to old job at old salary' ... kind
of an even break IMHO.
DOGE was kind of OVER-enthusiastic. Had to be, that
was its mission. Retrospect SENSE will un-do some
of that. Not ALL of course, a lot of 'govt' WAS
redundant, useless, money-leeching, just for the
empowerment of the bureaucracy ...
And then the higher b-crats answered to very PARTISAN
masters ..........
Not so great.
Now HOW do we fit Linux into all this ? :-)
On 18/08/2025 06:09, c186282 wrote:
Despite the romantic BS, the "knights" were rarely
the friend of The People. They were the heavily-
armed guys who'd ride in and chop-up half the pop
of your village if you didn't bow low enough to
the Lord and pay his taxes.
In short, the kings THUGS.
Not exactly.
In the end they were the defenders of the people and knights alone could
not do that.
On 17/08/2025 06:51, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 12:12:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
As is a hood Kerb is a different word to curb.
Yes, one must kerb one's desire to curb stomp annoying people. Or
do I have it backwards.
Totally correct. A Curb is something you control a horse with
"The word "curb" has its origins in the Latin word "curvus," meaning
"bent" or "curved."
This root is the basis for the word's meaning of restraint or
control,
as it was first used to describe the curved part of a horse's bridle
that provides control."
Kerb shares the same roots. But has evolved to mean the thing that
holds the pavements (sidewalks) in place.
Same as we have sill and cill. Same thing, different context. Cars
have sills (rockers) Windows have cills.
On 18/08/2025 7:58 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Nah. Knights didn't have navies. Only the king was rich enough for that
On 18/08/2025 06:09, c186282 wrote:
Despite the romantic BS, the "knights" were rarely
the friend of The People. They were the heavily-
armed guys who'd ride in and chop-up half the pop
of your village if you didn't bow low enough to
the Lord and pay his taxes.
In short, the kings THUGS.
Not exactly.
In the end they were the defenders of the people and knights alone
could not do that.
The Kings were the "Lords" that were rich enough to not only have
solders to 'defend' the people PLUS rich enough to have a fleet of Ships (i.e. a Navy) and the peasants/sailors to sail those ships.
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 12:45:59 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/08/2025 20:48, rbowman wrote:
There were some Canadiens in my extended family. They would
switch to French when they didn't want the kids to know what was
going on.
"Pas devant les domestiques..."
The maids are deviants? The other problem in my extended family was
the frogs drinking their beer warm,
which the krauts thought that was beyond the pale. They would put--
their differences aside to agree beer was a Sacrament.
William Jennings Bryan had a pretty good run but whispering
'prohibition' in the heavily German Midwest scuttled his last
attempt.
On 16/08/2025 9:13 am, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 12:45:59 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/08/2025 20:48, rbowman wrote:
There were some Canadiens in my extended family. They would
switch to French when they didn't want the kids to know what was
going on.
"Pas devant les domestiques..."
The maids are deviants? The other problem in my extended family was
the frogs drinking their beer warm,
WHAT!! I thought it was the Pomms that liked warm beer! Do the Pomms AND
the Frogs actually agree on something?? ;-P
On 2025-08-15 22:28, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 12:09:23 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Some UPS claim that the batteries last 4 years, but in my experience
they last 2. There is the possibility that brand name batteries are
actually better and last 4 years.
Many UPS don't say the status of the battery, you have to actually test
them manually with a stop watch. They may have a display, but that one
may be difficult to see when the UPS is out of sight. Only some UPS can
be connected to a computer for monitoring.
I've had good luck with APC. I haven't set it up but it does have a USB
connection for monitoring. Their PowerChute software specifies RHEL or
SUSE now instead of only Windows but I assume there is a general Linux
solution.
One thing we found at work where the larger sample size meant more
instances of bad batteries is a box plugged into the wall will survive a
brief flicker; one plugged into a UPS with a bad battery goes down hard.
I'm happy with Eaton. I have one (managed) powering this desktop (has
2*12 batteries), and I bought another (not managed) for my router, just
one 12v battery. I think it beeps when battery is bad, we'll see.
The new one at the router is not managed, but I don't have a permanent computer there to manage it, anyway.
On 19/08/2025 4:12 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 8/18/25 8:54 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/08/2025 5:09 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-16 13:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:(Not having read the artical ...) Does this mean those 'hundreds' got a
On 16/08/2025 00:55, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 18:26:48 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-08-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
Geopolitics is fiendishly complicated and its not a Gordian
not that can be solved with one slice of a sword.
Even if that sword is called "tariffs"? Aw, damn.
I think I'll make a bowl of popcorn, sit back, and watch. I
don''t know if it will help but I am behind Trump's firing of the
Bureau of Labor Statistics. It's not Trump, it's not recent, and >>>>>> it doesn't always seem partisan but the pattern for years has
been
June Report: Everything is wonderful!
September, spoken in very quiet tones with no headlines: June's
report has been revised upward/downward. Typically the number of
new jobs is revised downward, inflation is upward. It's very
suspicious the revisions are always in the wrong direction.
Trump is firing everyone he doesn't like. He has the witchfinder
general's nose for 'wokery' .
In 4 years time we should know which ones were in fact vital public
servants and which ones were just pointless fat arsed bureaucrats
eating up public money . And the next gummint wiill quietly
reinstate the vital ones and use the excuse that 'Trump destroyed
the economy' to avoid rehiring the rest.,
<https://edition.cnn.com/2025/08/05/weather/nws-rehiring-doge-
layoffs-climate>
Weather Service is now hiring back hundreds of positions that got cut
in the DOGE chaos
By Andrew Freedman Aug 5, 2025
final separation package .... and are now being re-employed back into
their old positions with old pays??
What a Bargain for the U.S. of A. people!!
Well, 'return to old job at old salary' ... kind
of an even break IMHO.
Sorry! My last was supposed to be sarcastic. I should have included some 'smileys' or something. ;-) Maybe ....
What a Bargain for the U.S. of A. people!! .... NOT!!
DOGE was kind of OVER-enthusiastic. Had to be, that
was its mission. Retrospect SENSE will un-do some
of that. Not ALL of course, a lot of 'govt' WAS
redundant, useless, money-leeching, just for the
empowerment of the bureaucracy ...
And then the higher b-crats answered to very PARTISAN
masters ..........
Not so great.
Now HOW do we fit Linux into all this ? :-)
Umm!! Well several FREE varieties of Linux ARE available. Save heaps of money.
On 19/08/2025 06:52, c186282 wrote:
And then
each brand/model of AMP and PREAMP adds its own
subtle color.
No, it doesn't
Unless its shite
All 'good' amplifiers are indistinguishable
On 19/08/2025 03:10, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
a listener
may believe many things about cables and other connectors which
are not supported by any evidence.
It's very hard to sell a new audio component based on facts when in
reality pretty much all the electronics is so perfect that listening to
it will never show a difference
So they sell em based on lies.
When CDs came out, a local station made a big point of indicating when
they were playing a CD as opposed to vinyl - completely disregarding the
fact that the limitations of the FM signal was what limited the quality
you'd hear. And I got a big laugh the day one of their "indestructible"
CDs skipped.
IGNORE the King Arthur crap ... 'knights' were most often the 'SS'
troopers of the old Lords.
Control and Taxes ... deliver OR ELSE.
On 8/18/25 20:22, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 01:03:56 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 15:30:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/08/2025 14:47, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Unfortunately, for very many people it is exactly that.
Le 16-08-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
You have a touching faith in The Science.
That's the misunderstood answer to scientists from believers. They
believe that science is a belief like any other religion, when it's
not.
Doesn’t matter what people believe. The interesting thing about
science is, it works whether you believe in it or not.
Engineering works. In a technical university with fledgling engineers
and scientists that was a hot debate topic.
And bumblebees keep on flying despite analysis to the contrary.
On 19/08/2025 04:32, rbowman wrote:
The related question is why, with a continent full of potential slaves,
did the colonists choose to import Africans.
They had nowhere to escape to.
On 19/08/2025 15:29, Daniel70 wrote:
On 16/08/2025 9:13 am, rbowman wrote:Frogs do not normally drink beer. beer is Germanic. The Latin nations drink wine..
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 12:45:59 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/08/2025 20:48, rbowman wrote:
There were some Canadiens in my extended family. They would
switch to French when they didn't want the kids to know what was
going on.
"Pas devant les domestiques..."
The maids are deviants? The other problem in my extended family was
the frogs drinking their beer warm,
WHAT!! I thought it was the Pomms that liked warm beer! Do the Pomms AND
the Frogs actually agree on something?? ;-P
In the Spanish land, they did because it was the law, which protected
the natives somewhat. Also I read they did not work well. Also because
many got ill and died, so not enough natives.
In any case, there were a lot of marriages between the Spaniards and the natives.
On 16/08/2025 9:13 am, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 12:45:59 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/08/2025 20:48, rbowman wrote:
There were some Canadiens in my extended family. They would switch to
French when they didn't want the kids to know what was going on.
"Pas devant les domestiques..."
The maids are deviants? The other problem in my extended family was the
frogs drinking their beer warm,
WHAT!! I thought it was the Pomms that liked warm beer! Do the Pomms AND
the Frogs actually agree on something?? ;-P
On 8/19/25 04:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-15 22:28, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 12:09:23 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Some UPS claim that the batteries last 4 years, but in my experience
they last 2. There is the possibility that brand name batteries are
actually better and last 4 years.
Many UPS don't say the status of the battery, you have to actually test >>>> them manually with a stop watch. They may have a display, but that one >>>> may be difficult to see when the UPS is out of sight. Only some UPS can >>>> be connected to a computer for monitoring.
I've had good luck with APC. I haven't set it up but it does have a USB
connection for monitoring. Their PowerChute software specifies RHEL or
SUSE now instead of only Windows but I assume there is a general Linux
solution.
One thing we found at work where the larger sample size meant more
instances of bad batteries is a box plugged into the wall will survive a >>> brief flicker; one plugged into a UPS with a bad battery goes down hard.
I'm happy with Eaton. I have one (managed) powering this desktop (has
2*12 batteries), and I bought another (not managed) for my router,
just one 12v battery. I think it beeps when battery is bad, we'll see.
The new one at the router is not managed, but I don't have a permanent
computer there to manage it, anyway.
When I had a C_64 and was doing accounting for friend I had to buy
a line conditioner. It helped improve the reliabilty of the power going
to the
little computer. I went on to the Amiga and a modern(?) switching power supply. I considered getting UPS but could not come up with the price.
In the mid-2000s maybe 2005 I got my first x86 laptop and have stuck
with laptops because they include their own batteries. I thnk all other form factors which do not have UPS should have their own batteries internally. It would save a lot work recovering from brown out and
power shut downs in some areas.
I am lucky in that in San Francisco I happen through lucky
chance to be on the same power line as the St.Francis Hospital
3 blocks further up Nob Hill. Very seldom do I experience power
failures but it can happen. A side note is that the last time I remember
it happening was when a Trolley bus shorted out 800 V DC power to
a local streetlamp and wiped out all the wiring in the utility vault.
It took most of the day for the maintanance crews to pull
fresh wiring into the buildings served by that vault. I could not
get to the net as the modem/router had no power but I lost no
work. And just maybe because of my high quality power strips
I lost no appliances. In the adjacent apartment their TV was
wasted by the surge.
bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2025.08- Linux 6.12.42-pclos1- KDE
Plasma 6.4.4
Maybe a significant portion of the SACKED will be of a age that they
will not bother coming back, just continue into retirement .... so
Newbies will be employed .... decreasing the Unemployed numbers!!
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 13:15:34 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
In the Spanish land, they did because it was the law, which protected
the natives somewhat. Also I read they did not work well. Also because
many got ill and died, so not enough natives.
The mission system in Spanish America was presented as improving the
natives' lot. Whether it did or not is a good question.
In any case, there were a lot of marriages between the Spaniards and the
natives.
The Spanish and French in America tended to have much more cordial
relations with the natives, so to speak, than the Anglos.
On 2025-08-19 16:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/08/2025 15:29, Daniel70 wrote:
On 16/08/2025 9:13 am, rbowman wrote:Frogs do not normally drink beer. beer is Germanic. The Latin nations
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 12:45:59 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/08/2025 20:48, rbowman wrote:
There were some Canadiens in my extended family. They would
switch to French when they didn't want the kids to know what was
going on.
"Pas devant les domestiques..."
The maids are deviants? The other problem in my extended family was
the frogs drinking their beer warm,
WHAT!! I thought it was the Pomms that liked warm beer! Do the Pomms AND >>> the Frogs actually agree on something?? ;-P
drink wine..
Hum. Egyptians had beer. So did the Romans, albeit the higher classes preferred wine.
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 13:15:34 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
In the Spanish land, they did because it was the law, which protected
the natives somewhat. Also I read they did not work well. Also because
many got ill and died, so not enough natives.
The mission system in Spanish America was presented as improving the
natives' lot. Whether it did or not is a good question.
In any case, there were a lot of marriages between the Spaniards and the
natives.
The Spanish and French in America tended to have much more cordial
relations with the natives, so to speak, than the Anglos.
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 02:20:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
IGNORE the King Arthur crap ... 'knights' were most often the 'SS'
troopers of the old Lords.
Control and Taxes ... deliver OR ELSE.
I am amused by the hype given to the Magna Carta, an agreement among the oligarch on how the turkey would be carved.
On Mon, 18 Aug 2025 21:02:04 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 8/18/25 20:22, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 01:03:56 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 15:30:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/08/2025 14:47, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Unfortunately, for very many people it is exactly that.
Le 16-08-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
You have a touching faith in The Science.
That's the misunderstood answer to scientists from believers. They >>>>>> believe that science is a belief like any other religion, when it's >>>>>> not.
Doesn’t matter what people believe. The interesting thing about
science is, it works whether you believe in it or not.
Engineering works. In a technical university with fledgling engineers
and scientists that was a hot debate topic.
And bumblebees keep on flying despite analysis to the contrary.
We used Resnick & Halliday as the physics text. That was an obvious choice since Resnick worked at RPI. One of the classic problems was calculating terminal velocity using the coefficient of friction between the wheels and surface. The Cf couldn't exceed 1 obviously.
Not so obviously when the AA fuel dragsters started going through the
traps faster than they should have. High speed photography showed the
slicks doing very strange things.
Then there are the current flow conventions...
On 19/08/2025 03:10, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
a listener
may believe many things about cables and other connectors which
are not supported by any evidence.
It's very hard to sell a new audio component based on facts when in
reality pretty much all the electronics is so perfect that listening to
it will never show a difference
So they sell em based on lies.
On 19/08/2025 06:52, c186282 wrote:
And then
each brand/model of AMP and PREAMP adds its own
subtle color.
No, it doesn't
Unless its shite
All 'good' amplifiers are indistinguishable
On 19/08/2025 06:52, c186282 wrote:
I remember the older quality transistor AB amps.
"Technically" they were probably very good, but
the sound just seemed too "hard".
Put em on test equipment and you find crossover distortion
Swap to valves and get intermodulation distortion instead.
The UK was all for good relations with the Original Occupants but that
was one reason for the colonials rebelling. A lot of the founders spoke
of Empire from the beginning and the idea that they would take the
continent from East to West. That happened in a relatively short time
due to gunpowder and improvement in long and short guns as well as an insatiable lust for land.
I believe that somewhere in a box in my garage I still have a copy of my Resnick & Halliday physics textbook from 1964. Gotta clean out that
garage some day....
On 19/08/2025 07:38, c186282 wrote:
True. Human senses - audio, visual or whatever - doEven in a world based on material realism, there are only a limited
not have "infinite resolution".
number of photons available in seeing, and a limited number of molecules
in hearing.
Ultimately sight and sound are both digital.
What IS there is constantly influenced, biased, by aWell exactl,. 'authentic' is eh sort of word the Left uses,. Its cosy, uplifting morallu pure and essentially meaningless.
bunch of other subtle things. There is no such thing
as an 'authentic experience' - it's all dependent,
processes and sub-processed, colored and biased,
compressed and tweaked as best to fit our little brains.
The Buddha was kind of right when he said All Is
Illusion. (note Plato's Allegory Of The Cave ...
similar ultimate conclusion, but, after what
happened to Socrates, he didn't dare finish the
thought).
See Kant Shopenhauer and latterly Popper
At very best, well, we're "Goo-Ware" ... evolved to
best fit THIS kind of world.
Or is this world merely the only way we can see a reality that is way
beyond us anyway?
On 2025-08-19 07:33, c186282 wrote:
On 8/18/25 8:16 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/08/2025 3:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 8/17/25 5:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Climbing up towards 70dB S/N. But still subject to snap crackle and >>>>> pop
And rumble flutter and wow.
The brain filtered that out pretty well.
Hi-Fi has less to do with technical accuracy than
it has to do with how the material is *perceived*
Correct. And speaking about "perceived" .... I can remember listening
to an album (one of those big black discs) put out by 'Kraftwerk'
called 'Autobahn'. I was lying on the Lounge-room floor with
headphones on and, when the 'Autobahn' tune starts, the 'music'
(sound of a vehicle) is way off in the distance in one ear. Slowly
the 'music' (vehicle noise) gets louder and louder and LOUDER then
crosses to the other ear ..... then gets softer and softer as the
vehicle 'disappears' away back into the distance.
Just about sent me 'Cross-eyed' ever time I listened to it!! NICE!!
Bliss, even.
(Thanks for the memories!! ;-) )
Spectral readings and tech specs do NOT define
what "sounds great".
We're "goo-ware" - not hardware.
Surely we can define what should sound great on our measurement
instruments.
objective.
On 2025-08-19 05:32, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2025 18:00:30 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Slaves were taken by many means sometimes betrayed by relatives
who wanted to get people with a claim to power out of the way. Sometimes >>> captured in Tribal wars or taken in the conquest of villages. Then and
now there are still the Arabian slavers who sold across the sea and
North to the Arabian overlords.
Then there was the slave market in Dublin. I have no doubt some of the
product consisted of inconvenient people the Irish wanted to get rid of.
One thing I find interesting is the Cherokee used slaves that they had
captured from neighboring tribes. After the Europeans arrived they sound
it preferable to purchase African slaves and later took them with them on
the Trail of Tears to Oklahoma. They're still squabbling about the status
of the descendants.
The related question is why, with a continent full of potential slaves,
did the colonists choose to import Africans.
In the Spanish land, they did because it was the law, which protected
the natives somewhat. Also I read they did not work well. Also because
many got ill and died, so not enough natives.
In any case, there were a lot of marriages between the Spaniards and the natives.
On 19/08/2025 11:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-19 07:33, c186282 wrote:I spent 15 years designing audio.
On 8/18/25 8:16 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/08/2025 3:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 8/17/25 5:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Climbing up towards 70dB S/N. But still subject to snap crackle
and pop
And rumble flutter and wow.
The brain filtered that out pretty well.
Hi-Fi has less to do with technical accuracy than
it has to do with how the material is *perceived*
Correct. And speaking about "perceived" .... I can remember
listening to an album (one of those big black discs) put out by
'Kraftwerk' called 'Autobahn'. I was lying on the Lounge-room floor
with headphones on and, when the 'Autobahn' tune starts, the 'music'
(sound of a vehicle) is way off in the distance in one ear. Slowly
the 'music' (vehicle noise) gets louder and louder and LOUDER then
crosses to the other ear ..... then gets softer and softer as the
vehicle 'disappears' away back into the distance.
Just about sent me 'Cross-eyed' ever time I listened to it!! NICE!!
Bliss, even.
(Thanks for the memories!! ;-) )
Spectral readings and tech specs do NOT define
what "sounds great".
We're "goo-ware" - not hardware.
Surely we can define what should sound great on our measurement
instruments. And once the rules are defined, that's repeatable and
objective.
In the end I could identify issues just by listening
And, frankly, Led Zep sounded better on CHEAP
systems. Once bought a 're-mastered' set ...
listened to a few tracks ... been on the shelf
ever since. The relatives can deal with it once
I'm dead.
On 2025-08-20, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
And, frankly, Led Zep sounded better on CHEAP
systems. Once bought a 're-mastered' set ...
listened to a few tracks ... been on the shelf
ever since. The relatives can deal with it once
I'm dead.
Records produced by the Warner/Elektra/Atlantic triumvirate
varied consistently in dynamic range. Turn up the volume
on a Warner recording and the sound came out and surrounded
you. Do the same on an Atlantic recording and it just got
loud. Elektra was somewhere in the middle.
Led Zeppelin and Yes were on Atlantic. Christopher Cross's
first album was on Warner Bros. - and it is beautiful.
On 8/19/25 12:02 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 8/18/25 20:22, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 01:03:56 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 15:30:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/08/2025 14:47, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Unfortunately, for very many people it is exactly that.
Le 16-08-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
You have a touching faith in The Science.
That's the misunderstood answer to scientists from believers. They >>>>>> believe that science is a belief like any other religion, when it's >>>>>> not.
Doesn’t matter what people believe. The interesting thing about science >>>> is, it works whether you believe in it or not.
Engineering works. In a technical university with fledgling engineers
and
scientists that was a hot debate topic.
And bumblebees keep on flying despite analysis to the contrary.
Well, there's been Better Analysis since the 50s :-)
As for "The Science" these days - indeed post-WW2 -
BEWARE of political/military agendas.
Remember "Sunshine Units" ??? I do !
DUCK AND COVER !!!!!!!!
On 2025-08-19, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 19/08/2025 06:52, c186282 wrote:
And then
each brand/model of AMP and PREAMP adds its own
subtle color.
No, it doesn't
Unless its shite
All 'good' amplifiers are indistinguishable
Someone once put things into perspective by holding up
a piece of wire and claiming its frequency response was
superior to that of any preamp.
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 17:57:18 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
When CDs came out, a local station made a big point of indicating when
they were playing a CD as opposed to vinyl - completely disregarding the
fact that the limitations of the FM signal was what limited the quality
you'd hear. And I got a big laugh the day one of their "indestructible"
CDs skipped.
The car radio (entertainment center?) has a CD player that I have very
rarely used. Mp3s don't skip on bad roads and it has a USB port.
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 02:20:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
IGNORE the King Arthur crap ... 'knights' were most often the 'SS'
troopers of the old Lords.
Control and Taxes ... deliver OR ELSE.
I am amused by the hype given to the Magna Carta, an agreement among the oligarch on how the turkey would be carved.
On 2025-08-19, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 02:20:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
IGNORE the King Arthur crap ... 'knights' were most often the 'SS'
troopers of the old Lords.
Control and Taxes ... deliver OR ELSE.
I am amused by the hype given to the Magna Carta, an agreement among the
oligarch on how the turkey would be carved.
Maybe Trump and Putin can come up with similar hype,
except they'll carve Ukraine. (Turkey may come later.)
Not so obviously when the AA fuel dragsters started going through the
traps faster than they should have. High speed photography showed the
slicks doing very strange things.
Then there are the current flow conventions...
On 8/19/25 00:14, c186282 wrote:
On 8/19/25 12:02 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 8/18/25 20:22, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 01:03:56 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>>>
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 15:30:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/08/2025 14:47, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Unfortunately, for very many people it is exactly that.
Le 16-08-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
You have a touching faith in The Science.
That's the misunderstood answer to scientists from believers. They >>>>>>> believe that science is a belief like any other religion, when it's >>>>>>> not.
Doesn’t matter what people believe. The interesting thing about
science
is, it works whether you believe in it or not.
Engineering works. In a technical university with fledgling
engineers and
scientists that was a hot debate topic.
And bumblebees keep on flying despite analysis to the contrary. >>
Well, there's been Better Analysis since the 50s :-)
As for "The Science" these days - indeed post-WW2 -
BEWARE of political/military agendas.
Remember "Sunshine Units" ??? I do !
I never heard of it before you mentioned it so I looked it up.
I was taught in roentgens and rads. The names and the limits have
been changed since I was in training in my 20s. At least that is what
I hear but I stay away from radiation and radioactive stuff as much
as possible. I avoid X rays.
DUCK AND COVER !!!!!!!!
Indeed it was taught in School and taught in the Military.
It was good advice if you were lucky enough to survive.
If you want to know about the horror of atomic attack read "Last Train to Nagasaki" or if that is too strenous look up the 12 volume
manga "Barefoot Gen"
as it is by a survivor who was quite young at the time. It was also an
amime
and maybe a Live Action movie. But the 12 volumes follow from the early horror to near adulthood and a move to Tokyo completes it.
I think Hershey's Hiroshima is not so effective as these two books.
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 09:29:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/08/2025 04:32, rbowman wrote:
The related question is why, with a continent full of potential slaves,
did the colonists choose to import Africans.
They had nowhere to escape to.
They could have and some did. Presumably they were skilled at living off
the land in Africa
and could have quietly slipped away and went west.
Instead there were religious nuts like Nat Turner whose rebellion started
by killing all the whites they could find. That's not a good tactic when you're outnumbered and the whites repaid the favor twofold or more.
I don't know if they would have been welcomed by the indigenous peoples.
At least the Cherokee were much more stringent about miscegenation than
the whites and may have considered them somewhat less than human. In fact what most of the tribes called themselves translated to The Real People rather than the names the whites or other tribes called them. Not too many tribes would choose to name themselves Sankes, Headbashers, Big Bellies, Flatheads, or Pierced Noses.
The tactic was more successful in Haiti, leading to the festering shithole that it still is.
On 2025-08-19 16:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/08/2025 15:29, Daniel70 wrote:
On 16/08/2025 9:13 am, rbowman wrote:Frogs do not normally drink beer. beer is Germanic. The Latin nations
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 12:45:59 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/08/2025 20:48, rbowman wrote:
There were some Canadiens in my extended family. They would
switch to French when they didn't want the kids to know what was
going on.
"Pas devant les domestiques..."
The maids are deviants? The other problem in my extended family was
the frogs drinking their beer warm,
WHAT!! I thought it was the Pomms that liked warm beer! Do the Pomms AND >>> the Frogs actually agree on something?? ;-P
drink wine..
Hum. Egyptians had beer. So did the Romans, albeit the higher classes preferred wine.
On 19/08/2025 19:21, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 17:57:18 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
When CDs came out, a local station made a big point of indicating when
they were playing a CD as opposed to vinyl - completely disregarding the >>> fact that the limitations of the FM signal was what limited the quality
you'd hear. And I got a big laugh the day one of their "indestructible" >>> CDs skipped.
The car radio (entertainment center?) has a CD player that I have very
rarely used. Mp3s don't skip on bad roads and it has a USB port.
I have to agree. I have a USB sick with almost all my music on it set to play randomly.
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 13:15:34 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
In the Spanish land, they did because it was the law, which protected
the natives somewhat. Also I read they did not work well. Also because
many got ill and died, so not enough natives.
The mission system in Spanish America was presented as improving the
natives' lot. Whether it did or not is a good question.
In any case, there were a lot of marriages between the Spaniards and the
natives.
The Spanish and French in America tended to have much more cordial
relations with the natives, so to speak, than the Anglos.
On 19/08/2025 19:26, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 02:20:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
IGNORE the King Arthur crap ... 'knights' were most often the 'SS' >>> troopers of the old Lords.
Control and Taxes ... deliver OR ELSE.
I am amused by the hype given to the Magna Carta, an agreement among the
oligarch on how the turkey would be carved.
It is however the first time that the Norman French nobility challenged
the absolute authority of the King.
And therefore is celebrated as a milestone on the long road to
approximate democracy.
Along with parliament beheading the king...
On 20/08/2025 00:10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-08-19, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 02:20:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
IGNORE the King Arthur crap ... 'knights' were most often the 'SS' >>>> troopers of the old Lords.
Control and Taxes ... deliver OR ELSE.
I am amused by the hype given to the Magna Carta, an agreement among the >>> oligarch on how the turkey would be carved.
Maybe Trump and Putin can come up with similar hype,
except they'll carve Ukraine. (Turkey may come later.)
Hah. What is apparent that the USA has abrogated its responsibility to European security, and has no cards left to play.
It's down to Europe, including Ukraine, to settle this one.
Trump can't have his cake and eat it too. Either he is in Europe's
security or he aint. And if he isn't prepared to up the ante, he cant
sit at the table.
Well ... brands/series CAN have tonal 'flavors'
that are a bit different. All good, just a little
'different'.
Note the "McIntosh Sound" in higher-end equipment.
It IS distinctive. It's not 'wrong' or 'bad', just
a little 'different' from the others. Using cone
or planar or electostatic or plasma speakers ...
again each is a little 'different'.
Quote tech specs all you will ... it's ALL feeding
into US, goo-ware, a 4+ billion year old evolutionary
product. So, what "sounds great" is what sounds great
to US ... not a bank of instrumentation.
Heh, heh ... just tried to look at a McIntosh reseller,
"Crutchfield". The site wanted me to Prove I'm Human.
Nope. NO SALE assholes.
DO note that we're talking $5000-$25000 amps here ...
Besides the groovy looks, are they THAT much better
than something from Best Buy ???
Only to the people you're trying to impress 🙂
Me, I like cones + tube/valve amps - best was
class-A, but it ran HOT all the time. Maybe
not the best for hard-2-get valves. IMHO, go
with Vandersteen 2C(x) series while your ears
are still young enough to really tell the diff.
Magneplanars ARE the 'clearest', most 'transparent',
but they DO need a lot of watts AND some sub-woofs
to cover the low end.
I once saw some place trying to make 'fake valves',
literal vacuum tech but instead of the hot filament
they substituted nano-etched emitter 'spines' for
the hot cathode. Otherwise typical pentode layout.
In THEORY vastly longer life but with valve
'characteristics', esp for audio. Not sure what
became of this tech. Sort of a merger of olde-tyme
and modern micro-engineering.
Hmmm ... my spell-checker doesn't RECOGNIZE the
word "pentode" .....
On 19/08/2025 19:41, rbowman wrote:
Not so obviously when the AA fuel dragsters started going through the
traps faster than they should have. High speed photography showed the
slicks doing very strange things.
Then there are the current flow conventions...
When you learn engineering, you learn that most derived 'laws' are not
laws at all. They are handy approximations to limited cases.
Coefficient of friction is just one of them. Coefficient of elasticity
is another one.
Enormous mistakes are made by people *believing* in (limited) *models*
of reality, rather than reality itself.
"Real" ??? Likely some kind of 10-dimensional
temporally/causally-indistinct sub-quantum sort
of thing. We CAN'T really grasp it - and even if
we could it wouldn't usefully inform our daily
lives.
And that seems to be "reality". Sucks eh ?
Surely we can define what should sound great on our measurement
instruments.
You would THINK so ... but it's not that simple
Extreme objective distortion and such, yea, you
can make a good call. But the finer stuff .....
And, frankly, Led Zep sounded better on CHEAP
systems. Once bought a 're-mastered' set ...
listened to a few tracks ... been on the shelf
ever since. The relatives can deal with it once
I'm dead.
That's kind of the point in this discussion - "by listening".
What "sounds best' to goo-ware things like us is NOT
easily resolved by mere instrumentation/figures/stats.
I stay away from radiation and radioactive stuff as much
as possible. I avoid X rays.
On 8/20/25 4:55 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/08/2025 19:26, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 02:20:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
IGNORE the King Arthur crap ... 'knights' were most often the 'SS' >>>> troopers of the old Lords.
Control and Taxes ... deliver OR ELSE.
I am amused by the hype given to the Magna Carta, an agreement among the >>> oligarch on how the turkey would be carved.
It is however the first time that the Norman French nobility
challenged the absolute authority of the King.
"Magna" WAS unique in Europe at the time.
But, in NO way, anything to do with Power
To The People.
And therefore is celebrated as a milestone on the long road to
approximate democracy.
Along with parliament beheading the king...
Took more than one rolling head ...
On 8/20/25 4:59 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/08/2025 00:10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-08-19, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 02:20:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
IGNORE the King Arthur crap ... 'knights' were most often the 'SS' >>>>> troopers of the old Lords.
Control and Taxes ... deliver OR ELSE.
I am amused by the hype given to the Magna Carta, an agreement among
the
oligarch on how the turkey would be carved.
Maybe Trump and Putin can come up with similar hype,
except they'll carve Ukraine. (Turkey may come later.)
Hah. What is apparent that the USA has abrogated its responsibility to
European security, and has no cards left to play.
It's down to Europe, including Ukraine, to settle this one.
Don't expect anything THAT good ...
Trump can't have his cake and eat it too. Either he is in Europe's
security or he aint. And if he isn't prepared to up the ante, he cant
sit at the table.
Trump has to Look Good. Putin has to Look Good.
A few of the crap EU leaders have to vaguely
SEEM to Look Good.
That's how it works...
On 8/20/25 5:04 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/08/2025 19:41, rbowman wrote:
Not so obviously when the AA fuel dragsters started going through the
traps faster than they should have. High speed photography showed the
slicks doing very strange things.
Then there are the current flow conventions...
When you learn engineering, you learn that most derived 'laws' are not
laws at all. They are handy approximations to limited cases.
Coefficient of friction is just one of them. Coefficient of elasticity
is another one.
Enormous mistakes are made by people *believing* in (limited) *models*
of reality, rather than reality itself.
HEY - You're GETTING it ! :-)
Anyone who believes 'The Science' and it's
recent 'models' define what is/will-be -
just IDIOTS.
Alas, esp since Al Gore, you just can't
entirely trust "The Science" - TOO much
politics/propaganda mixed in. Bummer.
Mid 50s and most of the 60s ... The State did all
it could to HIDE what a nukewar would DO.
Hey, no problem, hide in a CD shelter overnight and
it'd be All Ok !
On 19/08/2025 15:07, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/08/2025 7:58 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Nah. Knights didn't have navies. Only the king was rich enough for that
On 18/08/2025 06:09, c186282 wrote:
Despite the romantic BS, the "knights" were rarely
the friend of The People. They were the heavily-
armed guys who'd ride in and chop-up half the pop
of your village if you didn't bow low enough to
the Lord and pay his taxes.
In short, the kings THUGS.
Not exactly.
In the end they were the defenders of the people and knights alone
could not do that.
The Kings were the "Lords" that were rich enough to not only have
solders to 'defend' the people PLUS rich enough to have a fleet of
Ships (i.e. a Navy) and the peasants/sailors to sail those ships.
Point is it was relatively stable until the Black Death killed off everyone--
On 8/20/25 3:15 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 8/19/25 00:14, c186282 wrote:
On 8/19/25 12:02 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 8/18/25 20:22, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 01:03:56 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>>>>
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 15:30:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>
On 16/08/2025 14:47, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Unfortunately, for very many people it is exactly that.
Le 16-08-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
You have a touching faith in The Science.
That's the misunderstood answer to scientists from believers. They >>>>>>>> believe that science is a belief like any other religion, when it's >>>>>>>> not.
Doesn’t matter what people believe. The interesting thing about >>>>>> science
is, it works whether you believe in it or not.
Engineering works. In a technical university with fledgling
engineers and
scientists that was a hot debate topic.
And bumblebees keep on flying despite analysis to the contrary. >>>
Well, there's been Better Analysis since the 50s :-)
As for "The Science" these days - indeed post-WW2 -
BEWARE of political/military agendas.
Remember "Sunshine Units" ??? I do !
I never heard of it before you mentioned it so I looked it up.
I was taught in roentgens and rads. The names and the limits have
been changed since I was in training in my 20s. At least that is what
I hear but I stay away from radiation and radioactive stuff as much
as possible. I avoid X rays.
A massive euph - so "friendly sounding"
Been there. Heard it.
DUCK AND COVER !!!!!!!!
Indeed it was taught in School and taught in the Military.
It was good advice if you were lucky enough to survive.
Clue - you WOULD NOT .......
You'd be horribly burnt and irradiated. Yer little
kiddies SCREAMING as they died.
If you want to know about the horror of atomic attack read "Last >> Train to Nagasaki" or if that is too strenous look up the 12 volume
manga "Barefoot Gen"
as it is by a survivor who was quite young at the time. It was also an
amime
and maybe a Live Action movie. But the 12 volumes follow from the early
horror to near adulthood and a move to Tokyo completes it.
I think Hershey's Hiroshima is not so effective as these two books.
Mid 50s and most of the 60s ... The State did all
it could to HIDE what a nukewar would DO.
Hey, no problem, hide in a CD shelter overnight andGen's head was exposed to the radiation and for a while he
it'd be All Ok !
On 19/08/2025 19:21, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 17:57:18 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
When CDs came out, a local station made a big point of indicating when
they were playing a CD as opposed to vinyl - completely disregarding the >>> fact that the limitations of the FM signal was what limited the quality
you'd hear. And I got a big laugh the day one of their "indestructible" >>> CDs skipped.
The car radio (entertainment center?) has a CD player that I have very
rarely used. Mp3s don't skip on bad roads and it has a USB port.
I have to agree. I have a USB sick with almost all my music on it set to play randomly.
I think he tried to tell the Japanese that there was no need to evacuate around Fukushima and he was completely right. The evacuation killed more people than radiation ever could have.
One of the more amusing things coming out of the Fukushima accident, was
the Italian embassy evacuating its staff from Tokyo to Rome, where
someone pointed out that Rome itself is and always has been, more radioactive than Fukushima ever was..let alone Tokyo!
On 19/08/2025 18:57, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-08-19, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 19/08/2025 06:52, c186282 wrote:
And then
each brand/model of AMP and PREAMP adds its own
subtle color.
No, it doesn't
Unless its shite
All 'good' amplifiers are indistinguishable
Someone once put things into perspective by holding up
a piece of wire and claiming its frequency response was
superior to that of any preamp.
That was an April Fool article in Wireless World about the new
revolutionary ASPOW amplifier.
A Straight Piece Of Wire,
My car is Too Old .... CD/Casette ... NO USB.
'
Kinda like it that way ... the car doesn't
SPY on me. Better to put thousands into
keeping it going than to accept the
Horrible Future Paradigm.
Kinda LOOKING for a mid 60s restored car.
Doesn't have to be anything spectacular.
A Falcon maybe.
An old (deceased) bud of mine had a '64
Mercury ... straight-6, NO BS. It was a
Really Good Car.
Admittedly Hitler came to power legitimately - and
because the previous order had totally fucked up
everything. It was just horrible. Hitler had a way
out of it. Germany went to scraping the bottom to
kings in just a few years. Everybody loved Hitler.
But, megalomania ... power corrupts and absolute power .....
No Idea what McIntosh is.,..
The smallpox thing ... accident.
Kinda LOOKING for a mid 60s restored car.
Doesn't have to be anything spectacular.
A Falcon maybe.
An old (deceased) bud of mine had a '64 Mercury ... straight-6, NO
BS. It was a Really Good Car.
I'm with you. I don't know what I'm going to do when our cars (2007
Honda Civic and 1998 Suzuki Esteem) finally give up the ghost. I'll
probably be loking for older cars myself. Unless I can find some sort
of "how to hack your car" tutorial...
I'm a sequence freak (shuffle doesn't work too well on concept albums or podcasts where you want the episodes in sequence), so that's not an
option for me. I have an MP3 player which I can coax to play albums in sequence; I plug it into the car radio's analog input (which is more
than good enough given road noise, etc.).
On 20/08/2025 00:10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-08-19, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:Hah. What is apparent that the USA has abrogated its responsibility to European security, and has no cards left to play.
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 02:20:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
IGNORE the King Arthur crap ... 'knights' were most often the
'SS'
troopers of the old Lords.
Control and Taxes ... deliver OR ELSE.
I am amused by the hype given to the Magna Carta, an agreement among
the oligarch on how the turkey would be carved.
Maybe Trump and Putin can come up with similar hype, except they'll
carve Ukraine. (Turkey may come later.)
It's down to Europe, including Ukraine, to settle this one.
I've heard that the real reason a nuclear power plant couldn't be built
in Grand Central Station is that the background radiation from its
granite blocks exceeds the limits set for power plants.
A couple of years later the Falcons morphed into the Mustang and it was
also the basis for the Ranchero for a while. A lot of people associate 'cowboy Cadillac' with the El Camino but Ford got there first with the
full sized Ranchero in the late '50s. Then it shrunk in the Falcon based years and got bigger again.
I had a long conversation with a Mexican guy who rented me a car whilst
in the Yucatan, He said that there is a class system in Mexico which is pretty much identified by how Spanish you are. As opposed to Indian.
On 19/08/2025 19:26, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 02:20:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
IGNORE the King Arthur crap ... 'knights' were most often the 'SS'
troopers of the old Lords.
Control and Taxes ... deliver OR ELSE.
I am amused by the hype given to the Magna Carta, an agreement among
the oligarch on how the turkey would be carved.
It is however the first time that the Norman French nobility challenged
the absolute authority of the King.
And therefore is celebrated as a milestone on the long road to
approximate democracy.
Along with parliament beheading the king...
What we have evolved is a reasonable balance of political power
reflecting the underlying reality of who does have (financial) power in
our society.
On 19/08/2025 19:41, rbowman wrote:
Not so obviously when the AA fuel dragsters started going through the
traps faster than they should have. High speed photography showed the
slicks doing very strange things.
Then there are the current flow conventions...
When you learn engineering, you learn that most derived 'laws' are not
laws at all. They are handy approximations to limited cases.
Coefficient of friction is just one of them. Coefficient of elasticity
is another one.
Enormous mistakes are made by people *believing* in (limited) *models*
of reality, rather than reality itself.
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 01:13:44 -0400, c186282 wrote:
The smallpox thing ... accident.
The Europeans traded smallpox for syphilis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syphilis#Origin,_spread_and_discovery
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 11:18:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What we have evolved is a reasonable balance of political power
reflecting the underlying reality of who does have (financial) power in
our society.
We have the best government money can buy.
Oh and I think we have the Worst Government you
can buy. Sadly tax money contracts are for sale to the people who need
it least. Just donate to Trump's Presidential Library or other Trumpian Function.
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 05:15:04 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Kinda LOOKING for a mid 60s restored car.
Doesn't have to be anything spectacular.
A Falcon maybe.
An old (deceased) bud of mine had a '64 Mercury ... straight-6, NO
BS. It was a Really Good Car.
I had a '62 Falcon Futura with a 170 ci straight six. White with a black vinyl roof it looked like a shrunken T-Bird so I referred to it as the Thunder Chicken. It was a great winter car; I think it had some Jeep DNA.
https://falconclub.com/falcons-pages/the-ford-falcon/1962-ford-falcon/ 1962-falcon-futura/
A couple of years later the Falcons morphed into the Mustang and it was
also the basis for the Ranchero for a while. A lot of people associate 'cowboy Cadillac' with the El Camino but Ford got there first with the
full sized Ranchero in the late '50s. Then it shrunk in the Falcon based years and got bigger again.
I think today cowboy Cadillac is used for luxury mega-pickups than the
sedan based versions of that era.
On 2025-08-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
A couple of years later the Falcons morphed into the Mustang and it was
also the basis for the Ranchero for a while. A lot of people associate
'cowboy Cadillac' with the El Camino but Ford got there first with the
full sized Ranchero in the late '50s. Then it shrunk in the Falcon based
years and got bigger again.
I referred to the El Camino as a "city slicker's pickup truck".
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 11:18:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What we have evolved is a reasonable balance of political power
reflecting the underlying reality of who does have (financial) power in
our society.
We have the best government money can buy.
On 8/20/25 4:28 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 11:18:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What we have evolved is a reasonable balance of political power
reflecting the underlying reality of who does have (financial) power in
our society.
We have the best government money can buy.
Absolutely ! Nothing better !
Apparently the UK couldn't keep up with
the concept - NOW look at it ...
In any case, read yer Machiavelli. This is
how it's been done for a VERY long time.
There's the "public" govt, then the REAL
govt just behind the scenes that does the
actual work of making things work well,
keeps the money-tree alive.
Early USA ... they wanted only PROPERTY OWNERS
to vote. Property gave you a stake, some
permanence, tangible worth with future
possibilities. As such, property owners
were considered more reliable, more 'vested',
and thus more thoughtful voters.
That went away pretty soon, but the CONCEPT
wasn't insane.
On 8/20/25 22:08, c186282 wrote:
On 8/20/25 4:28 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 11:18:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What we have evolved is a reasonable balance of political power
reflecting the underlying reality of who does have (financial) power in >>>> our society.
We have the best government money can buy.
Absolutely ! Nothing better !
Apparently the UK couldn't keep up with
the concept - NOW look at it ...
In any case, read yer Machiavelli. This is
how it's been done for a VERY long time.
There's the "public" govt, then the REAL
govt just behind the scenes that does the
actual work of making things work well,
keeps the money-tree alive.
Maybe too it had something to do with the people
writing the Coonstitution. All property owners many of
them owning human property. What a vile concept.
Early USA ... they wanted only PROPERTY OWNERS
to vote. Property gave you a stake, some
permanence, tangible worth with future
possibilities. As such, property owners
were considered more reliable, more 'vested',
and thus more thoughtful voters.
That went away pretty soon, but the CONCEPT
wasn't insane.
No but it was selfish. A lot of the people who served
under GW were without property. The owners of property
have set up the laws so that people without property can
scarcely afford to get property or even much portable
wealth.
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 09:59:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/08/2025 00:10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-08-19, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:Hah. What is apparent that the USA has abrogated its responsibility to
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 02:20:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
IGNORE the King Arthur crap ... 'knights' were most often the
'SS'
troopers of the old Lords.
Control and Taxes ... deliver OR ELSE.
I am amused by the hype given to the Magna Carta, an agreement among
the oligarch on how the turkey would be carved.
Maybe Trump and Putin can come up with similar hype, except they'll
carve Ukraine. (Turkey may come later.)
European security, and has no cards left to play.
It's down to Europe, including Ukraine, to settle this one.
As it always should have been. Nuland & Crew should have never been
involved in the first place.
On 8/20/25 12:05, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 01:13:44 -0400, c186282 wrote:
The smallpox thing ... accident.
The Europeans traded smallpox for syphilis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syphilis#Origin,_spread_and_discovery
It was a skin disease in Calfornia's Original Occupants but but the time
it got to Europe it gained all the horrific symptoms that marked it for
many
years.
On 2025-08-20, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
I think he tried to tell the Japanese that there was no need to evacuate
around Fukushima and he was completely right. The evacuation killed more
people than radiation ever could have.
Funny how selective people are when counting deaths. When protesting
nuclear power in favour of good old coal, few people mention the number
of miners who died of black lung. For that matter, there were probably
more people killed at railroad crossings by coal trains than ever died
as a result of a nuclear power plant.
One of the more amusing things coming out of the Fukushima accident, was
the Italian embassy evacuating its staff from Tokyo to Rome, where
someone pointed out that Rome itself is and always has been, more
radioactive than Fukushima ever was..let alone Tokyo!
I've heard that the real reason a nuclear power plant couldn't be built
in Grand Central Station is that the background radiation from its granite blocks exceeds the limits set for power plants.
I consider Three Mile Island an advertisement for how safe nuclear
power really is when done right.
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 09:59:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
It's down to Europe, including Ukraine, to settle this one.
As it always should have been. Nuland & Crew should have never been
involved in the first place.
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 17:21:39 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I've heard that the real reason a nuclear power plant couldn't be built
in Grand Central Station is that the background radiation from its
granite blocks exceeds the limits set for power plants.
https://merrywidowhealthmine.com/
It's good for you. Radon testing was a flourishing cottage industry in New Hampshire (The Granite State).
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 10:17:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I had a long conversation with a Mexican guy who rented me a car whilst
in the Yucatan, He said that there is a class system in Mexico which is
pretty much identified by how Spanish you are. As opposed to Indian.
That is also the case in the US. Until recently lighter skin was also
favored by blacks.
Sheinbaum, the current president of Mexico, doesn't fit the Spanish
template. Both parents are European Jews.
The USA should HAVE NEVER adopted a 'responsibility' for
European security. We soon would up subsidizing all the
'socialist' free-money crap over there. So, now, let
the EU watch it's own ass. They CAN afford it, IF
they quit with the luxury housing for Islamists and
a few other things.
USA provided HEAVY support to Ukraine for YEARS. It
is why the Russians couldn't just walk over the
entire country in a month. However the COST was very
extreme, and the EU didn't want to spend a penny.
Again, now, let Europe watch it's own ass. USA
will help, a little, but ....
Seems like every trick and variation has been
tried over the past century. Now if somebody
has a Citroen 2cv with a big Jap V-twin
cycle engine spliced in I might be interested
in buying 🙂
On 8/20/25 4:00 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 09:59:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/08/2025 00:10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-08-19, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:Hah. What is apparent that the USA has abrogated its responsibility to
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 02:20:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
IGNORE the King Arthur crap ... 'knights' were most often the >>>>>> 'SS'
troopers of the old Lords.
Control and Taxes ... deliver OR ELSE.
I am amused by the hype given to the Magna Carta, an agreement among >>>>> the oligarch on how the turkey would be carved.
Maybe Trump and Putin can come up with similar hype, except they'll
carve Ukraine. (Turkey may come later.)
European security, and has no cards left to play.
It's down to Europe, including Ukraine, to settle this one.
As it always should have been. Nuland & Crew should have never been
involved in the first place.
The USA should HAVE NEVER adopted a 'responsibility' for
European security. We soon would up subsidizing all the
'socialist' free-money crap over there. So, now, let
the EU watch it's own ass. They CAN afford it, IF
they quit with the luxury housing for Islamists and
a few other things.
USA provided HEAVY support to Ukraine for YEARS. It
is why the Russians couldn't just walk over the
entire country in a month. However the COST was very
extreme, and the EU didn't want to spend a penny.
Again, now, let Europe watch it's own ass. USA
will help, a little, but ....
On 8/19/25 7:15 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-19 05:32, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2025 18:00:30 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Slaves were taken by many means sometimes betrayed by relatives >>>> who wanted to get people with a claim to power out of the way.
Sometimes
captured in Tribal wars or taken in the conquest of villages. Then and >>>> now there are still the Arabian slavers who sold across the sea and
North to the Arabian overlords.
Then there was the slave market in Dublin. I have no doubt some of the
product consisted of inconvenient people the Irish wanted to get rid of. >>>
One thing I find interesting is the Cherokee used slaves that they had
captured from neighboring tribes. After the Europeans arrived they sound >>> it preferable to purchase African slaves and later took them with
them on
the Trail of Tears to Oklahoma. They're still squabbling about the
status
of the descendants.
The related question is why, with a continent full of potential slaves,
did the colonists choose to import Africans.
In the Spanish land, they did because it was the law, which protected
the natives somewhat. Also I read they did not work well. Also because
many got ill and died, so not enough natives.
In any case, there were a lot of marriages between the Spaniards and
the natives.
Sex slaves have always been popular.
Find the "Code Of Ur-Nammu" ... 5000+ year old
laws writ on tablets. Plenty of stuff about
slaves ... and it wasn't so great.
Ah :
https://www.worldhistory.org/Code_of_Ur-Nammu/
I can only fault Spain to a certain extent.
Their view of power/conquest really wasn't
THAT much different from the S.American
cultures. It was the tech/organization that
let them become Top Dog ... not anything
ethically/morally/intellectually inferior
or superior. The locals could have all
kicked Spanish ass - but the native pols
all saw them as useful allies against
their own local enemies/rivals.
The smallpox thing ... accident.--
(yes, Elon is weird too - but I don't hold it
against him)
On 21/08/2025 2:57 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
(yes, Elon is weird too - but I don't hold it
against him)
Last I heard of Elon, there was talk of him setting up his own U.S. Political Party.
If he did, would it achieve anything (apart from wasting money)??
Owned a later-model Falcon for awhile ... 200 engine.
Very good car, and there was enough space under the bonnet to
basically climb in to do maint.
Mustang people don't want to ADMIT they were just Falcons with a
sexier bod bolted on
1960s to mid 70s ... standard "station wagons" were in almost every
driveway. Not as much room as today's SUVs, but Good Enough - and
lower-profile. Some had very big engines too. Neighbor had one with a
440 + 4-barrel. It'd MOVE (and the fuel gauge moved almost as
quickly).
A place I worked had a heavy flatbed truck with a straight-8 ... dual
water pumps as I recall ... and ran on six volts. NON-sync
transmission -
you had to shift it JUST RIGHT or the lever would snap back hard
enough to crack a bone.
Seems like every trick and variation has been tried over the past
century. Now if somebody has a Citroen 2cv with a big Jap V-twin
cycle engine spliced in I might be interested in buying
Maybe too it had something to do with the people
writing the Coonstitution. All property owners many of them owning human property. What a vile concept.
Shortly after the revolution, western-land restrictions gone, a LOT
of people became property owners.
On 20/08/2025 21:00, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 09:59:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Well the USA did sign a guarantee of Ukraine's sovereignty in return for
It's down to Europe, including Ukraine, to settle this one.
As it always should have been. Nuland & Crew should have never been
involved in the first place.
them giving up their nukes.,
But sure. America always rats out on its promises
I do as well, As they say, more people died at Chappaquiddick Bridge
than at three mile island...
It did fill that role ... but was also very popular
out in the burbs and beyond. It was sort of a truck,
sort of a car, not sure WHY it has such appeal but yet it DOES.
The Tesla truck is a sort of rip-off of the design principle - but
I'd never buy one, too weird.
On 21/08/2025 2:57 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
(yes, Elon is weird too - but I don't hold it against him)
Last I heard of Elon, there was talk of him setting up his own U.S.
Political Party.
If he did, would it achieve anything (apart from wasting money)??
The Tesla truck is a sort of rip-off of the design principle - but
I'd never buy one, too weird.
There was one spotted around town. Definitely weird.
On 20/08/2025 21:21, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 10:17:28 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I had a long conversation with a Mexican guy who rented me a car
whilst in the Yucatan, He said that there is a class system in Mexico
which is pretty much identified by how Spanish you are. As opposed to
Indian.
That is also the case in the US. Until recently lighter skin was also
favored by blacks.
Sheinbaum, the current president of Mexico, doesn't fit the Spanish
template. Both parents are European Jews.
Unnecessary detail
On 2025-08-07 22:09, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 7 Aug 2025 14:40:41 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I don't know about those, but "real" floppy drives did not have an
actual controller, rather an interface. Nothing smart. The CPU had to
time all operations itself. Notice when the hole marking start of track
passes, read, count sectors, time the write operation... everything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Digital_FD1771
I don't know what you consider a 'real' floppy.
Not an USB connected floppy driver, but any of the ones we bough in the 80's or 80's to install on our PCs.
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 22:46:31 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Maybe too it had something to do with the people
writing the Coonstitution. All property owners many of them owning human
property. What a vile concept.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays's_Rebellion
Can't have farmers and such getting uppity. Funny how Sam Adams decided there were good rebellions and bad rebellions. One man's freedom
fighter...
Somehow the speculators who had bought up the debt incurred during the war for pennies on the dollar were made whole by the new government while the yeomen who had financed the war were screwed. So it goes.
There was an outfit that sold libs for TP that
would let you do TSR and I think hotkeys. I used
TSRs to probe external devices, to update values,
while still sticking to the main display/control
pgm.
I think I remember that.
What I bought was a thick book with many powerful examples, perhaps a floppy.
TSR is kinda-sorta 'multi-tasking' - within limits.
You COULD make your own TSRs with TP, but it was
easier to buy the pre-made/debugged.
On Thu, 8/7/2025 4:23 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-07 22:09, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 7 Aug 2025 14:40:41 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I don't know about those, but "real" floppy drives did not have an
actual controller, rather an interface. Nothing smart. The CPU had to
time all operations itself. Notice when the hole marking start of track >>>> passes, read, count sectors, time the write operation... everything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Digital_FD1771
I don't know what you consider a 'real' floppy.
Not an USB connected floppy driver, but any of the ones we bough in the 80's or 80's to install on our PCs.
The ones in the early days, used the main CPU as an IOP and
the CPU was required to respond in real time (NOPs to adjust the
timing), when writing after seeing an index mark. If you were
smart (not many people were smart back then), you would use an
IOP to control a thing like this and hide the details.
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/765_FDC
Even though our OS was multitasking, and most I/O was async,
the floppy was the exception, as the management felt (of all things),
they would not bother doing a separate IOP for the floppy and
they would drive it directly. Other functions, used a 6809 as an
IOP. One of the funny/ironic parts, is the PCB with the '765 on it,
had scads of room for an IOP, the PCB was only 25% used. It's likely
the hardest part of such a design, would be finding someone to write
firmware for such crusty materials (not as easy as you would think).
The person who tweaked the assembler for that dumb floppy chip,
he used to use a 465 oscilloscope, to check that his timing was
correct at the hardware level. That is what a pain in the ass
this particular interface is. Oscilloscope material, and needs
scoping every time something changes elsewhere in the system.
If the main CPU changed from 8MHz to 12MHz, the source has to be
opened up again and tuned. (The 465 was preferred for this, because
you could wheel the scope cart into a cubicle and it would fit.)
When you did any I/O on the (direct-drive) floppy, the entire OS would stop, the code would enter the floppy assembler and "do stuff".
There were other companies doing this too. When AppleTalk (on a
serial port at perhaps 224Kbit/sec) wanted to send packets, I
think that took assembler code to keep up, and any kind of
tasking went out the window during network operations. At a comparable
time where I worked, we considered it a "victory" when a serial
port ran at 9600 :-)
The car radio (entertainment center?) has a CD player that I have very
rarely used. Mp3s don't skip on bad roads and it has a USB port.
I have to agree. I have a USB sick with almost all my music on it set to
play randomly.
My car is Too Old .... CD/Casette ... NO USB.
On 2025-08-21, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 22:46:31 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Maybe too it had something to do with the people
writing the Coonstitution. All property owners many of them owning
human property. What a vile concept.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays's_Rebellion
Can't have farmers and such getting uppity. Funny how Sam Adams decided
there were good rebellions and bad rebellions. One man's freedom
fighter...
Somehow the speculators who had bought up the debt incurred during the
war for pennies on the dollar were made whole by the new government
while the yeomen who had financed the war were screwed. So it goes.
Sounds like an early version of "too big to fail".
Before that I had a Mustang, whose CD/Cassette/AM/FM Radio developed mechanical problems in the CD and cassette mechanisms, but a visit to
BestBuy Electronics got me a great CD/Radio/USB player that fit nicely
in the dashboard, thanks to modular mounting standards. Cost me about
USD 150 including installation.
I know of this because back then I read an article in a computer magazine where they wrote a "driver" or something that multiplied the capacity of floppies, playing with the timings. The article went into all the gory details.
I wonder how Linux implemented the floppy routines, though. At some point, someone had to write floppy handling code that worked on any PC, CPU and speed.
Linux may have handled "better" floppy controller blocks than the one in
the example. Did Linux ever work with 8" floppy drives ?
I think the hardware had advanced a bit past that point.
On Thu, 8/7/2025 4:23 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-07 22:09, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 7 Aug 2025 14:40:41 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I don't know about those, but "real" floppy drives did not have an
actual controller, rather an interface. Nothing smart. The CPU had to
time all operations itself. Notice when the hole marking start of track >>>> passes, read, count sectors, time the write operation... everything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Digital_FD1771
I don't know what you consider a 'real' floppy.
Not an USB connected floppy driver, but any of the ones we bough in the 80's or 80's to install on our PCs.
The ones in the early days, used the main CPU as an IOP and
the CPU was required to respond in real time (NOPs to adjust the
timing), when writing after seeing an index mark. If you were
smart (not many people were smart back then), you would use an
IOP to control a thing like this and hide the details.
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/765_FDC
Even though our OS was multitasking, and most I/O was async,
the floppy was the exception, as the management felt (of all things),
they would not bother doing a separate IOP for the floppy and
they would drive it directly. Other functions, used a 6809 as an
IOP. One of the funny/ironic parts, is the PCB with the '765 on it,
had scads of room for an IOP, the PCB was only 25% used. It's likely
the hardest part of such a design, would be finding someone to write
firmware for such crusty materials (not as easy as you would think).
The person who tweaked the assembler for that dumb floppy chip,
he used to use a 465 oscilloscope, to check that his timing was
correct at the hardware level. That is what a pain in the ass
this particular interface is. Oscilloscope material, and needs
scoping every time something changes elsewhere in the system.
If the main CPU changed from 8MHz to 12MHz, the source has to be
opened up again and tuned. (The 465 was preferred for this, because
you could wheel the scope cart into a cubicle and it would fit.)
When you did any I/O on the (direct-drive) floppy, the entire OS would stop, the code would enter the floppy assembler and "do stuff".
There were other companies doing this too. When AppleTalk (on a
serial port at perhaps 224Kbit/sec) wanted to send packets, I
think that took assembler code to keep up, and any kind of
tasking went out the window during network operations. At a comparable
time where I worked, we considered it a "victory" when a serial
port ran at 9600 :-)
Paul
On Thu, 8/21/2025 6:43 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I know of this because back then I read an article in a computer magazine where they wrote a "driver" or something that multiplied the capacity of floppies, playing with the timings. The article went into all the gory details.
I wonder how Linux implemented the floppy routines, though. At some point, someone had to write floppy handling code that worked on any PC, CPU and speed.
Linux may have handled "better" floppy controller blocks than
the one in the example. Did Linux ever work with 8" floppy drives ?
I think the hardware had advanced a bit past that point.
Even our last machine with 8" floppy in it, the staff were basically
ignoring the floppy. Back when the only thing you owned was a floppy,
it was much more important that it work. Some of our server configurations, seemed to boot off the floppy :-) I think the print server worked that way. You'd boot the floppy and you had a print server.
On 8/20/25 4:50 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The car radio (entertainment center?) has a CD player that I have very >>>> rarely used. Mp3s don't skip on bad roads and it has a USB port.
On 19/08/2025 19:21, rbowman wrote:
I have to agree. I have a USB sick with almost all my music on it set to >>> play randomly.
On 2025-08-20, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
My car is Too Old .... CD/Casette ... NO USB.
My current car is a 2011 Prius with an OK audio/navigation package
(though recently there is some instability in connecting to my iPhone -
I'm blaming it on a bug in the phone's BlueTooth driver).
It has a 5-disc changer with can play audio or MP3 CDs.
Before that I had a Mustang, whose CD/Cassette/AM/FM Radio developed mechanical problems in the CD and cassette mechanisms, but a visit to
BestBuy Electronics got me a great CD/Radio/USB player that fit nicely
in the dashboard, thanks to modular mounting standards. Cost me about
USD 150 including installation.
The new stuff locks you in to the original manufacturer, but pre-2005 or
so, the radio is a separate unit that can be easily replaced/upgraded. I think the aftermarket radios are even still on the store shelves.
On Thu, 8/21/2025 6:43 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I know of this because back then I read an article in a computer magazine where they wrote a "driver" or something that multiplied the capacity of floppies, playing with the timings. The article went into all the gory details.
I wonder how Linux implemented the floppy routines, though. At some point, someone had to write floppy handling code that worked on any PC, CPU and speed.
Linux may have handled "better" floppy controller blocks than
the one in the example. Did Linux ever work with 8" floppy drives ?
I think the hardware had advanced a bit past that point.--
Even our last machine with 8" floppy in it, the staff were basically
ignoring the floppy. Back when the only thing you owned was a floppy,
it was much more important that it work. Some of our server configurations, seemed to boot off the floppy :-) I think the print server worked that way. You'd boot the floppy and you had a print server.
On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 10:36:56 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I do as well, As they say, more people died at Chappaquiddick Bridge
than at three mile island...
Unfortunately Fat Teddy wasn't one of them. Teddy was against illegal immigration until someone mentioned his favorite Irish bartender was a wet back. That' and being Teddy, I'm sure they had even juicier stuff to
convince him to join Celler's team of shabbas goys. Of course Kennedy
swore the Immigration Act wasn't going to change the US's demographics.
I regret I left the east coast 20 years to early and didn't get a chance
to piss on his grave.
I wonder how Linux implemented the floppy routines, though. At some
point, someone had to write floppy handling code that worked on any PC,
CPU and speed.
On 8/21/25 10:40 PM, Paul wrote:
On Thu, 8/21/2025 6:43 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I know of this because back then I read an article in a computer
magazine where they wrote a "driver" or something that multiplied the
capacity of floppies, playing with the timings. The article went into
all the gory details.
I wonder how Linux implemented the floppy routines, though. At some
point, someone had to write floppy handling code that worked on any
PC, CPU and speed.
Linux may have handled "better" floppy controller blocks than
the one in the example. Did Linux ever work with 8" floppy drives ?
Never saw that. Linux came along well after 8-inchers.
Support was likely seen as "unnecessary".
I think reading 8-inchers would require custom interface
hardware. May have once, briefly, existed but good luck
tracking down anything now.
Last box I had with 8-inchers, I just wired up a funky
serial interface to an original IBM-PC and copied the
data over that way. Somewhere I have a photo - nest of
about ten discrete wires stuck into the ports :-)
I think the hardware had advanced a bit past that point.
Even our last machine with 8" floppy in it, the staff were basically
ignoring the floppy. Back when the only thing you owned was a floppy,
it was much more important that it work. Some of our server
configurations,
seemed to boot off the floppy :-) I think the print server worked that
way.
You'd boot the floppy and you had a print server.
8-inchers LOOKED impressive ... but they didn't HOLD
very much nor were especially quick. I've still got
a few of them around ... because they look cool, not
because they're good for anything. A huge number of
people even slightly younger than I am NEVER saw an
8-inch floppy.
To paraphrase : "You call THAT a floppy ? Now THIS
is a floppy !" :-)
Hmmm ... remember the old removable-platter hard drive
units ? 99.999% haven't. They'd probably try to remove
the pak while it was still spinning :-)
LAST one I ever saw ... weirdly, in the sonar niche
of an attack submarine. Mil systems tend to be specced
like ten or twelve years before you see actual product.
Anyway, try :--
https://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/s_drives_howto.html#dunfield
Mil systems tend to be specced
like ten or twelve years before you see actual product.
On 21/08/2025 23:43, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I wonder how Linux implemented the floppy routines, though. At someI am not sure that linux supports any more than the obvious 5 1/4" and
point, someone had to write floppy handling code that worked on any PC,
CPU and speed.
3.5" media. Maybe 8" as well.
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 02:20:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
IGNORE the King Arthur crap ... 'knights' were most often the 'SS'
troopers of the old Lords.
Control and Taxes ... deliver OR ELSE.
I am amused by the hype given to the Magna Carta, an agreement among the oligarch on how the turkey would be carved.
On 8/20/25 4:28 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 11:18:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What we have evolved is a reasonable balance of political power
reflecting the underlying reality of who does have (financial) power in
our society.
We have the best government money can buy.
Absolutely ! Nothing better !
Apparently the UK couldn't keep up with
the concept - NOW look at it ...
In any case, read yer Machiavelli. This is
how it's been done for a VERY long time.
There's the "public" govt, then the REAL
govt just behind the scenes that does the
actual work of making things work well,
keeps the money-tree alive.
Early USA ... they wanted only PROPERTY OWNERS
to vote. Property gave you a stake, some--
permanence, tangible worth with future
possibilities. As such, property owners
were considered more reliable, more 'vested',
and thus more thoughtful voters.
That went away pretty soon, but the CONCEPT
wasn't insane.
The new stuff locks you in to the original manufacturer, but pre-2005 or
so, the radio is a separate unit that can be easily replaced/upgraded. I
think the aftermarket radios are even still on the store shelves.
I can not imagine how I could change the "radio" on my car if I wanted
to do so, that I don't, but I'm curious. The "radio" has a display and
it also does things like configure several options for the car system,
or connect to my smartphone and display the navigation data. I don't
think this kind of thing is standard anymore.
On 2025-08-21 06:51, c186282 wrote:
Seems like every trick and variation has been
tried over the past century. Now if somebody
has a Citroen 2cv with a big Jap V-twin
cycle engine spliced in I might be interested
in buying 🙂
An electric 2CV is planned for 2028 :-p
<https://2cev.co.uk/>
<https://www.electriccarscheme.com/blog/citron-2cv-electric-revival>
On 2025-08-22 09:30, c186282 wrote:
On 8/21/25 10:40 PM, Paul wrote:
On Thu, 8/21/2025 6:43 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I know of this because back then I read an article in a computer
magazine where they wrote a "driver" or something that multiplied
the capacity of floppies, playing with the timings. The article went
into all the gory details.
I wonder how Linux implemented the floppy routines, though. At some
point, someone had to write floppy handling code that worked on any
PC, CPU and speed.
Linux may have handled "better" floppy controller blocks than
the one in the example. Did Linux ever work with 8" floppy drives ?
Never saw that. Linux came along well after 8-inchers.
Support was likely seen as "unnecessary".
I think reading 8-inchers would require custom interface
hardware. May have once, briefly, existed but good luck
tracking down anything now.
Last box I had with 8-inchers, I just wired up a funky
serial interface to an original IBM-PC and copied the
data over that way. Somewhere I have a photo - nest of
about ten discrete wires stuck into the ports :-)
I think the hardware had advanced a bit past that point.
Even our last machine with 8" floppy in it, the staff were basically
ignoring the floppy. Back when the only thing you owned was a floppy,
it was much more important that it work. Some of our server
configurations,
seemed to boot off the floppy :-) I think the print server worked
that way.
You'd boot the floppy and you had a print server.
8-inchers LOOKED impressive ... but they didn't HOLD
very much nor were especially quick. I've still got
a few of them around ... because they look cool, not
because they're good for anything. A huge number of
people even slightly younger than I am NEVER saw an
8-inch floppy.
To paraphrase : "You call THAT a floppy ? Now THIS
is a floppy !" :-)
Hmmm ... remember the old removable-platter hard drive
units ? 99.999% haven't. They'd probably try to remove
the pak while it was still spinning :-)
No, I don't remember. Only saw them in books or movies :-)
LAST one I ever saw ... weirdly, in the sonar niche
of an attack submarine. Mil systems tend to be specced
like ten or twelve years before you see actual product.
I was told a submarine history.
Someone bought a new computer, guaranteed. It was an Amstrad PC (maybe
the model with hard disk). Days later he came back to the shop, the
machine would not boot. The vendor handed over a new unit. A few days
more, the client came back with another broken machine. I think they
tried once more before the vendor started asked questions. Where are you installing it? Well, you know, in our navy submarine {name}. (maybe they were trying in the entire fleet of two or three subs, or only one,
dunno). The vendor quietly said that they would not supply them with any more computers.
The computer died soon after they started the diesel engine, the
vibrations killed the computers :-D
Not knowing much about actual subs in our navy, I'm a bit surprised that
a diesel sub vibrates so much, though. Subs are supposed to be silent,
but perhaps they aren't when they run the old diesel.
Anyway, try :
https://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/s_drives_howto.html#dunfield
On 22/08/2025 08:30, c186282 wrote:
Mil systems tend to be specced
like ten or twelve years before you see actual product.
I worked on an anti-missile missile system in 1968 that actually ended
up working in the Falklands war in 1982...
I wonder if any of the hardware I designed was ever in it....
On 21/08/2025 3:08 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 8/20/25 4:28 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 11:18:32 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What we have evolved is a reasonable balance of political power
reflecting the underlying reality of who does have (financial) power in >>>> our society.
We have the best government money can buy.
Absolutely ! Nothing better !
Apparently the UK couldn't keep up with
the concept - NOW look at it ...
In any case, read yer Machiavelli. This is
how it's been done for a VERY long time.
There's the "public" govt, then the REAL
govt just behind the scenes that does the
actual work of making things work well,
keeps the money-tree alive.
Early USA ... they wanted only PROPERTY OWNERS
Or did they only want *MALE* PROPERTY OWNERS??
to vote. Property gave you a stake, some
permanence, tangible worth with future
possibilities. As such, property owners
were considered more reliable, more 'vested',
and thus more thoughtful voters.
That went away pretty soon, but the CONCEPT
wasn't insane.
On 2025-08-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
A couple of years later the Falcons morphed into the Mustang and it was
also the basis for the Ranchero for a while. A lot of people associate
'cowboy Cadillac' with the El Camino but Ford got there first with the
full sized Ranchero in the late '50s. Then it shrunk in the Falcon based
years and got bigger again.
I referred to the El Camino as a "city slicker's pickup truck".
On 2025-08-20, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-08-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
A couple of years later the Falcons morphed into the Mustang and it
was also the basis for the Ranchero for a while. A lot of people
associate 'cowboy Cadillac' with the El Camino but Ford got there
first with the full sized Ranchero in the late '50s. Then it shrunk in
the Falcon based years and got bigger again.
I referred to the El Camino as a "city slicker's pickup truck".
Before the EU harmonizations, Denamrk had a 180% tax on firt time registration of new cars (because there was no local auto industry, and
they wanted to preserve currency by repairing old cars instead of
importing new ones). But there was no tax on heavy trucks. So they
brought in El Caminos and added a 500 lb steel plate on the truck bed. Presto: It was a heavy truck for tax purposes (above 2 tons unloaded
weight). Pretty useless for hauling goods, but a nice airconditioned
Cadillac ride.
The Tesla truck is a sort of rip-off of the design principle - but
I'd never buy one, too weird.
There was one spotted around town. Definitely weird.
There's a handful in my area (being on the fringes of the greater
Sacramento sprawl, it's a stomping ground for douchebags with more
money than taste.) Laughed like that Muppet gremlin in ROTJ when I ran
across someone's '83 Toyota liftback recently and realized that it's *exactly* that in reverse.
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 11:22:58 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <1089ge2$1fvl9$8@dont-email.me>:
On 21/08/2025 23:43, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I wonder how Linux implemented the floppy routines, though. At someI am not sure that linux supports any more than the obvious 5 1/4" and
point, someone had to write floppy handling code that worked on any PC,
CPU and speed.
3.5" media. Maybe 8" as well.
I looked at the relevant table in drivers/block/floppy.c, and it
appears to not support 8", just 3.5" and 5 1/4".
On 8/22/25 6:26 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/08/2025 08:30, c186282 wrote:
Mil systems tend to be specced
like ten or twelve years before you see actual product.
I worked on an anti-missile missile system in 1968 that actually ended
up working in the Falklands war in 1982...
I wonder if any of the hardware I designed was ever in it....
They will de-classify that in about another 50 years :-)
On 8/21/25 6:47 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-21 06:51, c186282 wrote:
Seems like every trick and variation has been
tried over the past century. Now if somebody
has a Citroen 2cv with a big Jap V-twin
cycle engine spliced in I might be interested
in buying 🙂
An electric 2CV is planned for 2028 :-p
<https://2cev.co.uk/>
<https://www.electriccarscheme.com/blog/citron-2cv-electric-revival>
GAK !!!
No, never EVER !
Now an old one with a GoldWing, VMax or VTX-1800--
engine spliced in :-)
On 8/22/25 6:23 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-22 09:30, c186282 wrote:
On 8/21/25 10:40 PM, Paul wrote:
On Thu, 8/21/2025 6:43 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
LAST one I ever saw ... weirdly, in the sonar niche
of an attack submarine. Mil systems tend to be specced
like ten or twelve years before you see actual product.
I was told a submarine history.
Someone bought a new computer, guaranteed. It was an Amstrad PC (maybe
the model with hard disk). Days later he came back to the shop, the
machine would not boot. The vendor handed over a new unit. A few days
more, the client came back with another broken machine. I think they
tried once more before the vendor started asked questions. Where are
you installing it? Well, you know, in our navy submarine {name}.
(maybe they were trying in the entire fleet of two or three subs, or
only one, dunno). The vendor quietly said that they would not supply
them with any more computers.
The computer died soon after they started the diesel engine, the
vibrations killed the computers :-D
Not knowing much about actual subs in our navy, I'm a bit surprised
that a diesel sub vibrates so much, though. Subs are supposed to be
silent, but perhaps they aren't when they run the old diesel.
The diesel is mostly to keep the batteries topped-off.
The sub I toured was nuke ... there was a big door with
a bunch of "We will KILL you if you enter" kind of stuff
writ on it.
The military loves its secrets.
Anyway, try :
https://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/s_drives_howto.html#dunfield
On 2025-08-22 00:51, Lars Poulsen wrote:
The new stuff locks you in to the original manufacturer, but pre-2005 or >>> so, the radio is a separate unit that can be easily replaced/upgraded. I >>> think the aftermarket radios are even still on the store shelves.
On 2025-08-22, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I can not imagine how I could change the "radio" on my car if I wanted
to do so, that I don't, but I'm curious. The "radio" has a display and
it also does things like configure several options for the car system,
or connect to my smartphone and display the navigation data. I don't
think this kind of thing is standard anymore.
As I said ... what model year is your car? When the "radio" became a computer, aftermarket upgrades went out the window(s)!
Not knowing much about actual subs in our navy, I'm a bit surprised that
a diesel sub vibrates so much, though. Subs are supposed to be silent,
but perhaps they aren't when they run the old diesel.
The EPA imposed fleet fuel economy regulations on vehicles
but exempted light trucks from many of the requirements. Put a shiny body
on a pickup chassis and, voila, the SUV was born. Of course there always
were vans built on light truck chassis but without rather expensive conversions they were noisy, uncomfortable, and almost impossible to heat
in the winter.
On 2025-08-22 15:49, c186282 wrote:
On 8/21/25 6:47 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-21 06:51, c186282 wrote:
Seems like every trick and variation has been
tried over the past century. Now if somebody
has a Citroen 2cv with a big Jap V-twin
cycle engine spliced in I might be interested
in buying 🙂
An electric 2CV is planned for 2028 :-p
<https://2cev.co.uk/>
<https://www.electriccarscheme.com/blog/citron-2cv-electric-revival>
GAK !!!
No, never EVER !
LOL :-D
I wonder what kind of suspension they are planning. The classic?
Personally before his mind ran away, I think Reagan was actually a
pretty smart operator, for an actor.
And Bush senior too.
On 20/08/2025 4:26 am, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 02:20:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:In what year was The Magna Carta signed?? 1215 Why do I recall this
IGNORE the King Arthur crap ... 'knights' were most often the 'SS'
troopers of the old Lords.
Control and Taxes ... deliver OR ELSE.
I am amused by the hype given to the Magna Carta, an agreement among
the oligarch on how the turkey would be carved.
fact?? 12:15 was when History Period started in Grade Six!! ;-P
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 11:22:58 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <1089ge2$1fvl9$8@dont-email.me>:
On 21/08/2025 23:43, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I wonder how Linux implemented the floppy routines, though. At someI am not sure that linux supports any more than the obvious 5 1/4" and
point, someone had to write floppy handling code that worked on any
PC,
CPU and speed.
3.5" media. Maybe 8" as well.
I looked at the relevant table in drivers/block/floppy.c, and it appears
to not support 8", just 3.5" and 5 1/4".
Depended on the state apparently. A few allowed widows to vote, esp
if they owned property. NOT sure if women could vote for federal
positions however.
I can not imagine how I could change the "radio" on my car if I wanted
to do so, that I don't, but I'm curious. The "radio" has a display and
it also does things like configure several options for the car system,
or connect to my smartphone and display the navigation data. I don't
think this kind of thing is standard anymore.
On 2025-08-22 00:51, Lars Poulsen wrote:
The new stuff locks you in to the original manufacturer, but pre-2005
or so, the radio is a separate unit that can be easily
replaced/upgraded. I think the aftermarket radios are even still on
the store shelves.
On 2025-08-22, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I can not imagine how I could change the "radio" on my car if I wanted
to do so, that I don't, but I'm curious. The "radio" has a display and
it also does things like configure several options for the car system,
or connect to my smartphone and display the navigation data. I don't
think this kind of thing is standard anymore.
As I said ... what model year is your car? When the "radio" became a computer, aftermarket upgrades went out the window(s)!
That turned me off history until my later years. I love looking at
the big picture and how it all comes together but elementary school
teachers favored tests they could easily grade and dates were as
black and white as it gets. They also had a very tight focus. What
else was happening in the world in 1215? What was Frederick II up to?
How about the Danes?
On 22/08/2025 19:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-22 15:49, c186282 wrote:Why not? It worked. A lot better than any US truck with a solid axle and cart springs
On 8/21/25 6:47 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-21 06:51, c186282 wrote:
Seems like every trick and variation has been
tried over the past century. Now if somebody
has a Citroen 2cv with a big Jap V-twin
cycle engine spliced in I might be interested
in buying 🙂
An electric 2CV is planned for 2028 :-p
<https://2cev.co.uk/>
<https://www.electriccarscheme.com/blog/citron-2cv-electric-revival>
GAK !!!
No, never EVER !
LOL :-D
I wonder what kind of suspension they are planning. The classic?
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 22:18:49 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
On 20/08/2025 4:26 am, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 02:20:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:In what year was The Magna Carta signed?? 1215 Why do I recall this
IGNORE the King Arthur crap ... 'knights' were most often the 'SS' >>>> troopers of the old Lords.
Control and Taxes ... deliver OR ELSE.
I am amused by the hype given to the Magna Carta, an agreement among
the oligarch on how the turkey would be carved.
fact?? 12:15 was when History Period started in Grade Six!! ;-P
That turned me off history until my later years. I love looking at the big picture and how it all comes together but elementary school teachers
favored tests they could easily grade and dates were as black and white as
it gets. They also had a very tight focus. What else was happening in the world in 1215? What was Frederick II up to? How about the Danes?
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 12:23:39 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Not knowing much about actual subs in our navy, I'm a bit surprised that
a diesel sub vibrates so much, though. Subs are supposed to be silent,
but perhaps they aren't when they run the old diesel.
The pigboats were silent -- when they were running on batteries.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2018/june/theres-case-diesels
Like everything else diesel engines and batteries have improved. It's interesting a diesel boat in stealth mode is quieter than a nuke.
It takes a special breed of cat for submarines. I've never been on a
nuclear sub but I have been on a diesel that was in the Groton yard.
Besides the psychological profile I'm not built to be a submariner -- or a tanker for that matter. I don't think there is a height limit anymore but unless you're under 6' you do a lot of ducking.
I don't know. When they made the modern version of the Volkswagen
beetle I hated it. It was no longer a car for the people, but a
luxury thing.
On the other hand, an electric 2CV will be heavy, so it needs a
serious redesign. The original had thin walls, the tiniest bump with
a modern car and it is wreck.
On 2025-08-22 20:55, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 12:23:39 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Not knowing much about actual subs in our navy, I'm a bit surprised that >>> a diesel sub vibrates so much, though. Subs are supposed to be silent,
but perhaps they aren't when they run the old diesel.
The pigboats were silent -- when they were running on batteries.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2018/june/theres-case-diesels
Like everything else diesel engines and batteries have improved. It's
interesting a diesel boat in stealth mode is quieter than a nuke.
It takes a special breed of cat for submarines. I've never been on a
nuclear sub but I have been on a diesel that was in the Groton yard.
Besides the psychological profile I'm not built to be a submariner --
or a
tanker for that matter. I don't think there is a height limit anymore but
unless you're under 6' you do a lot of ducking.
Spain is building a new class of submarines, the S80, with
"Air-independent propulsion (AIP)".
«The S-80's air-independent propulsion (AIP) system is based on a bioethanol-processor consisting of a reaction chamber and several intermediate Coprox reactors. Provided by Hynergreen from Abengoa, the system transforms the bioethanol (BioEtOH) into high purity hydrogen.
The output feeds a series of fuel cells from UTC Power company.»
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-80_Plus-class_submarine>
There are two built currently, but they run on standard diesels. The
third one, the S81 is scheduled to have the actual AIP, and then it will
be retrofitted on the other two.
Which means they are delayed, previously the S82 was scheduled to have it.
On 22/08/2025 21:59, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-22 20:55, rbowman wrote:All sounds a bit ecosilly
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 12:23:39 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Not knowing much about actual subs in our navy, I'm a bit surprised
that
a diesel sub vibrates so much, though. Subs are supposed to be silent, >>>> but perhaps they aren't when they run the old diesel.
The pigboats were silent -- when they were running on batteries.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2018/june/theres-case-diesels >>>
Like everything else diesel engines and batteries have improved. It's
interesting a diesel boat in stealth mode is quieter than a nuke.
It takes a special breed of cat for submarines. I've never been on a
nuclear sub but I have been on a diesel that was in the Groton yard.
Besides the psychological profile I'm not built to be a submariner --
or a
tanker for that matter. I don't think there is a height limit anymore
but
unless you're under 6' you do a lot of ducking.
Spain is building a new class of submarines, the S80, with "Air-
independent propulsion (AIP)".
«The S-80's air-independent propulsion (AIP) system is based on a
bioethanol-processor consisting of a reaction chamber and several
intermediate Coprox reactors. Provided by Hynergreen from Abengoa, the
system transforms the bioethanol (BioEtOH) into high purity hydrogen.
The output feeds a series of fuel cells from UTC Power company.»
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-80_Plus-class_submarine>
There are two built currently, but they run on standard diesels. The
third one, the S81 is scheduled to have the actual AIP, and then it
will be retrofitted on the other two.
Which means they are delayed, previously the S82 was scheduled to have
it.
They will be putting sails on the nukes next, to keep the greens happy
On 2025-08-22 23:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/08/2025 21:59, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-22 20:55, rbowman wrote:All sounds a bit ecosilly
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 12:23:39 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Not knowing much about actual subs in our navy, I'm a bit surprised >>>>> that
a diesel sub vibrates so much, though. Subs are supposed to be silent, >>>>> but perhaps they aren't when they run the old diesel.
The pigboats were silent -- when they were running on batteries.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2018/june/theres-case-diesels >>>>
Like everything else diesel engines and batteries have improved. It's
interesting a diesel boat in stealth mode is quieter than a nuke.
It takes a special breed of cat for submarines. I've never been on a
nuclear sub but I have been on a diesel that was in the Groton yard.
Besides the psychological profile I'm not built to be a submariner
-- or a
tanker for that matter. I don't think there is a height limit
anymore but
unless you're under 6' you do a lot of ducking.
Spain is building a new class of submarines, the S80, with "Air-
independent propulsion (AIP)".
«The S-80's air-independent propulsion (AIP) system is based on a
bioethanol-processor consisting of a reaction chamber and several
intermediate Coprox reactors. Provided by Hynergreen from Abengoa,
the system transforms the bioethanol (BioEtOH) into high purity
hydrogen. The output feeds a series of fuel cells from UTC Power
company.»
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-80_Plus-class_submarine>
There are two built currently, but they run on standard diesels. The
third one, the S81 is scheduled to have the actual AIP, and then it
will be retrofitted on the other two.
Which means they are delayed, previously the S82 was scheduled to
have it.
They will be putting sails on the nukes next, to keep the greens happy
It has nothing to do with ecology, but with autonomy underwater and
silence.
On 22/08/2025 22:21, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-22 23:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Nuclear is better
On 22/08/2025 21:59, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-22 20:55, rbowman wrote:All sounds a bit ecosilly
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 12:23:39 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Not knowing much about actual subs in our navy, I'm a bit
surprised that
a diesel sub vibrates so much, though. Subs are supposed to be
silent,
but perhaps they aren't when they run the old diesel.
The pigboats were silent -- when they were running on batteries.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2018/june/theres-case-
diesels
Like everything else diesel engines and batteries have improved. It's >>>>> interesting a diesel boat in stealth mode is quieter than a nuke.
It takes a special breed of cat for submarines. I've never been on a >>>>> nuclear sub but I have been on a diesel that was in the Groton yard. >>>>> Besides the psychological profile I'm not built to be a submariner
-- or a
tanker for that matter. I don't think there is a height limit
anymore but
unless you're under 6' you do a lot of ducking.
Spain is building a new class of submarines, the S80, with "Air-
independent propulsion (AIP)".
«The S-80's air-independent propulsion (AIP) system is based on a
bioethanol-processor consisting of a reaction chamber and several
intermediate Coprox reactors. Provided by Hynergreen from Abengoa,
the system transforms the bioethanol (BioEtOH) into high purity
hydrogen. The output feeds a series of fuel cells from UTC Power
company.»
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-80_Plus-class_submarine>
There are two built currently, but they run on standard diesels. The
third one, the S81 is scheduled to have the actual AIP, and then it
will be retrofitted on the other two.
Which means they are delayed, previously the S82 was scheduled to
have it.
They will be putting sails on the nukes next, to keep the greens happy
It has nothing to do with ecology, but with autonomy underwater and
silence.
On 2025-08-22 15:49, c186282 wrote:
On 8/21/25 6:47 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-21 06:51, c186282 wrote:
Seems like every trick and variation has been
tried over the past century. Now if somebody
has a Citroen 2cv with a big Jap V-twin
cycle engine spliced in I might be interested
in buying 🙂
An electric 2CV is planned for 2028 :-p
<https://2cev.co.uk/>
<https://www.electriccarscheme.com/blog/citron-2cv-electric-revival>
GAK !!!
No, never EVER !
LOL :-D
I wonder what kind of suspension they are planning. The classic?
On 2025-08-22 15:59, c186282 wrote:
On 8/22/25 6:23 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-22 09:30, c186282 wrote:
On 8/21/25 10:40 PM, Paul wrote:
On Thu, 8/21/2025 6:43 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
...
LAST one I ever saw ... weirdly, in the sonar niche
of an attack submarine. Mil systems tend to be specced
like ten or twelve years before you see actual product.
I was told a submarine history.
Someone bought a new computer, guaranteed. It was an Amstrad PC
(maybe the model with hard disk). Days later he came back to the
shop, the machine would not boot. The vendor handed over a new unit.
A few days more, the client came back with another broken machine. I
think they tried once more before the vendor started asked questions.
Where are you installing it? Well, you know, in our navy submarine
{name}. (maybe they were trying in the entire fleet of two or three
subs, or only one, dunno). The vendor quietly said that they would
not supply them with any more computers.
The computer died soon after they started the diesel engine, the
vibrations killed the computers :-D
Not knowing much about actual subs in our navy, I'm a bit surprised
that a diesel sub vibrates so much, though. Subs are supposed to be
silent, but perhaps they aren't when they run the old diesel.
The diesel is mostly to keep the batteries topped-off.
In these subs, the diesel is the main engine. They charge the battery
and then they can submerge for a while. Coastal defence is their purpose.
The Tesla truck is a sort of rip-off of the design principle - but
I'd never buy one, too weird.
On 21 Aug 2025 20:02:23 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
There was one spotted around town. Definitely weird.
On 2025-08-21, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
There's a handful in my area (being on the fringes of the greater
Sacramento sprawl, it's a stomping ground for douchebags with more
money than taste.) Laughed like that Muppet gremlin in ROTJ when I ran
across someone's '83 Toyota liftback recently and realized that it's
*exactly* that in reverse.
Have you seen the Cybertrucks with the large TOYOTA lettering on the
tail panel? Really cute!!
On 22/08/2025 19:19, rbowman wrote:
The EPA imposed fleet fuel economy regulations on vehicles
but exempted light trucks from many of the requirements. Put a shiny body
on a pickup chassis and, voila, the SUV was born. Of course there always
were vans built on light truck chassis but without rather expensive
conversions they were noisy, uncomfortable, and almost impossible to heat
in the winter.
Over Here it was the other way around. Small cars didn't have enough
storage capacity or visibility so they put bigger bodies on them 4WD and bigger tyres.
Over Here it was the other way around. Small cars didn't have enough
storage capacity or visibility so they put bigger bodies on them 4WD and bigger tyres.
On 2025-08-22 15:49, c186282 wrote:
On 8/21/25 6:47 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-21 06:51, c186282 wrote:
Seems like every trick and variation has been tried over the
past century. Now if somebody has a Citroen 2cv with a big Jap
V-twin cycle engine spliced in I might be interested in buying
🙂
An electric 2CV is planned for 2028 :-p
<https://2cev.co.uk/>
<https://www.electriccarscheme.com/blog/citron-2cv-electric-revival>
GAK !!!
No, never EVER !
LOL :-D
I wonder what kind of suspension they are planning. The classic?
I don't know. When they made the modern version of the Volkswagen beetle
I hated it. It was no longer a car for the people, but a luxury thing.
IIRC it had a two cylinder wasted spark engine up front driving the
front wheels and trailing arm rear suspension with I think coil-over
shocks.
On 22/08/2025 19:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-22 15:49, c186282 wrote:Why not? It worked. A lot better than any US truck with a solid axle and cart springs
On 8/21/25 6:47 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-21 06:51, c186282 wrote:
Seems like every trick and variation has been
tried over the past century. Now if somebody
has a Citroen 2cv with a big Jap V-twin
cycle engine spliced in I might be interested
in buying 🙂
An electric 2CV is planned for 2028 :-p
<https://2cev.co.uk/>
<https://www.electriccarscheme.com/blog/citron-2cv-electric-revival>
GAK !!!
No, never EVER !
LOL :-D
I wonder what kind of suspension they are planning. The classic?
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 11:19:20 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Personally before his mind ran away, I think Reagan was actually a
pretty smart operator, for an actor.
In one of his campaign speeches he said something to the effect of I don't know how to do all this stuff but I know people who do. That sold me. He
took the 'executive' part of the job seriously. Some of his picks weren't
the best but so it goes. He did a lot better than Trump's first go.
I read this morning the FBI raided Bolton's home and offices looking for secure documents that shouldn't be there. Hopefully they find a treasure trove.
And Bush senior too.
I didn't like the man or his father. Nelson Rockefeller was a popular governor from my home state and Prescott Bush torpedoed his presidential ambitions. Rockefeller had divorced his wife and remarried. The feeling in NYS was Happy, the second wife, was a better catch. He was re-elected two times after that. It offended Bush's WASP sensitivity; prior to that they
had been BFFs.
GHWB was a little to smarmy for me, let alone his 'Read my lips' bullshit.
I did vote for the idiot son in 2000, but when the choice is Fat Albert
what are you going to do? Then he attacked the wrong country over daddy issues. Or I should say that evil dwarf Cheney and his neo-con buddies. i
did not vote for him the second time. Or McSame. Or Romney.
On 22 Aug 2025 19:21:42 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
That turned me off history until my later years. I love looking at the
big picture and how it all comes together but elementary school
teachers favored tests they could easily grade and dates were as black
and white as it gets. They also had a very tight focus. What else was
happening in the world in 1215? What was Frederick II up to?
How about the Danes?
History is one of those subjects that's immensely fascinating, but gets taught in exactly the way that's most likely to turn students off ever
taking an interest in it - much like reading, where even if the method
for teaching *how* to read isn't faulty (which it all too often is,) the actual *reading a book* part is treated as nothing more than the
preamble to the hell that is book reports and dull-ass were-you-paying- the-barest-minimum-of-attention quizzes.
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 22:18:49 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
On 20/08/2025 4:26 am, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 02:20:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:In what year was The Magna Carta signed?? 1215 Why do I recall this
IGNORE the King Arthur crap ... 'knights' were most often the 'SS' >>>> troopers of the old Lords.
Control and Taxes ... deliver OR ELSE.
I am amused by the hype given to the Magna Carta, an agreement among
the oligarch on how the turkey would be carved.
fact?? 12:15 was when History Period started in Grade Six!! ;-P
That turned me off history until my later years. I love looking at the big picture and how it all comes together but elementary school teachers
favored tests they could easily grade and dates were as black and white as
it gets. They also had a very tight focus. What else was happening in the world in 1215? What was Frederick II up to? How about the Danes?
Yes, I also hated dates.
On 22 Aug 2025 10:47:13 GMT, vallor wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 11:22:58 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <1089ge2$1fvl9$8@dont-email.me>:
On 21/08/2025 23:43, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I wonder how Linux implemented the floppy routines, though. At someI am not sure that linux supports any more than the obvious 5 1/4" and
point, someone had to write floppy handling code that worked on any
PC,
CPU and speed.
3.5" media. Maybe 8" as well.
I looked at the relevant table in drivers/block/floppy.c, and it appears
to not support 8", just 3.5" and 5 1/4".
The 50 pin cable rather than the later 34 pin might be the real killer.
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 10:05:39 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Depended on the state apparently. A few allowed widows to vote, esp
if they owned property. NOT sure if women could vote for federal
positions however.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeannette_Rankin
Local hero of sorts. She was elected to Congress before she could vote for herself in a national election. She also voted against the US entry into
WWI and WWII -- the only one with balls enough to do so for WWII.
She's another one liberals have to gloss over a bit. She was interested
with the vote for white women. Blacks weren't her problem.
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 11:58:16 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I can not imagine how I could change the "radio" on my car if I wanted
to do so, that I don't, but I'm curious. The "radio" has a display and
it also does things like configure several options for the car system,
or connect to my smartphone and display the navigation data. I don't
think this kind of thing is standard anymore.
The 'radio' in my 2018 Toyota also show fuel economy and other stuff. The volume and mode can be controlled for rocker switches on the steering
wheel. There are also switches for phone stuff on the other side of the
wheel that I wandered into by mistake. Never used the phone as a phone in
the car and have no idea how it works. I have used the phone with jango through Bluetooth for music. It's also a convenient way to determine phone coverage -- when the music stops playing there isn't any.
The 2007 Toyota did not have a radio. I was happy to find it had speakers
and a harness anyway so adding the aftermarket radio was easy. I doubt you could buy a new car without a 'infotainment' device. Some of the car
reviews spend more time on that than handling and performance.
On 2025-08-22 09:30, c186282 wrote:
On 8/21/25 10:40 PM, Paul wrote:
On Thu, 8/21/2025 6:43 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I know of this because back then I read an article in a computer
magazine where they wrote a "driver" or something that multiplied
the capacity of floppies, playing with the timings. The article went
into all the gory details.
I wonder how Linux implemented the floppy routines, though. At some
point, someone had to write floppy handling code that worked on any
PC, CPU and speed.
Linux may have handled "better" floppy controller blocks than
the one in the example. Did Linux ever work with 8" floppy drives ?
Never saw that. Linux came along well after 8-inchers.
Support was likely seen as "unnecessary".
I think reading 8-inchers would require custom interface
hardware. May have once, briefly, existed but good luck
tracking down anything now.
Last box I had with 8-inchers, I just wired up a funky
serial interface to an original IBM-PC and copied the
data over that way. Somewhere I have a photo - nest of
about ten discrete wires stuck into the ports :-)
I think the hardware had advanced a bit past that point.
Even our last machine with 8" floppy in it, the staff were basically
ignoring the floppy. Back when the only thing you owned was a floppy,
it was much more important that it work. Some of our server
configurations,
seemed to boot off the floppy :-) I think the print server worked
that way.
You'd boot the floppy and you had a print server.
8-inchers LOOKED impressive ... but they didn't HOLD
very much nor were especially quick. I've still got
a few of them around ... because they look cool, not
because they're good for anything. A huge number of
people even slightly younger than I am NEVER saw an
8-inch floppy.
To paraphrase : "You call THAT a floppy ? Now THIS
is a floppy !" :-)
Hmmm ... remember the old removable-platter hard drive
units ? 99.999% haven't. They'd probably try to remove
the pak while it was still spinning :-)
No, I don't remember. Only saw them in books or movies :-)
LAST one I ever saw ... weirdly, in the sonar niche
of an attack submarine. Mil systems tend to be specced
like ten or twelve years before you see actual product.
I was told a submarine history.
Someone bought a new computer, guaranteed. It was an Amstrad PC (maybe
the model with hard disk). Days later he came back to the shop, the
machine would not boot. The vendor handed over a new unit. A few days
more, the client came back with another broken machine. I think they
tried once more before the vendor started asked questions. Where are you installing it? Well, you know, in our navy submarine {name}. (maybe they were trying in the entire fleet of two or three subs, or only one,
dunno). The vendor quietly said that they would not supply them with any more computers.
The computer died soon after they started the diesel engine, the
vibrations killed the computers :-D
Not knowing much about actual subs in our navy, I'm a bit surprised that
a diesel sub vibrates so much, though. Subs are supposed to be silent,
but perhaps they aren't when they run the old diesel.
Anyway, try :
https://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/s_drives_howto.html#dunfield
On 22 Aug 2025 19:21:42 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
That turned me off history until my later years. I love looking at
the big picture and how it all comes together but elementary school
teachers favored tests they could easily grade and dates were as
black and white as it gets. They also had a very tight focus. What
else was happening in the world in 1215? What was Frederick II up to?
How about the Danes?
History is one of those subjects that's immensely fascinating, but gets taught in exactly the way that's most likely to turn students off ever
taking an interest in it
- much like reading, where even if the method
for teaching *how* to read isn't faulty (which it all too often is,)
the actual *reading a book* part is treated as nothing more than the
preamble to the hell that is book reports and dull-ass were-you-paying- the-barest-minimum-of-attention quizzes.
On 2025-08-22 20:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/08/2025 19:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-22 15:49, c186282 wrote:Why not? It worked. A lot better than any US truck with a solid axle
On 8/21/25 6:47 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-21 06:51, c186282 wrote:
Seems like every trick and variation has been
tried over the past century. Now if somebody
has a Citroen 2cv with a big Jap V-twin
cycle engine spliced in I might be interested
in buying 🙂
An electric 2CV is planned for 2028 :-p
<https://2cev.co.uk/>
<https://www.electriccarscheme.com/blog/citron-2cv-electric-revival>
GAK !!!
No, never EVER !
LOL :-D
I wonder what kind of suspension they are planning. The classic?
and cart springs
I don't know. When they made the modern version of the Volkswagen beetle
I hated it. It was no longer a car for the people, but a luxury thing.
On the other hand, an electric 2CV will be heavy, so it needs a serious redesign. The original had thin walls, the tiniest bump with a modern
car and it is wreck.
On 2025-08-22 21:21, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 22:18:49 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
On 20/08/2025 4:26 am, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 02:20:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:In what year was The Magna Carta signed?? 1215 Why do I recall this
IGNORE the King Arthur crap ... 'knights' were most often the >>>>> 'SS'
troopers of the old Lords.
Control and Taxes ... deliver OR ELSE.
I am amused by the hype given to the Magna Carta, an agreement among
the oligarch on how the turkey would be carved.
fact?? 12:15 was when History Period started in Grade Six!! ;-P
That turned me off history until my later years. I love looking at the
big
picture and how it all comes together but elementary school teachers
favored tests they could easily grade and dates were as black and
white as
it gets. They also had a very tight focus. What else was happening in the
world in 1215? What was Frederick II up to? How about the Danes?
Yes, I also hated dates.
On 2025-08-22 20:55, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 12:23:39 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Not knowing much about actual subs in our navy, I'm a bit surprised that >>> a diesel sub vibrates so much, though. Subs are supposed to be silent,
but perhaps they aren't when they run the old diesel.
The pigboats were silent -- when they were running on batteries.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2018/june/theres-case-diesels
Like everything else diesel engines and batteries have improved. It's
interesting a diesel boat in stealth mode is quieter than a nuke.
It takes a special breed of cat for submarines. I've never been on a
nuclear sub but I have been on a diesel that was in the Groton yard.
Besides the psychological profile I'm not built to be a submariner --
or a
tanker for that matter. I don't think there is a height limit anymore but
unless you're under 6' you do a lot of ducking.
Spain is building a new class of submarines, the S80, with
"Air-independent propulsion (AIP)".
«The S-80's air-independent propulsion (AIP) system is based on a bioethanol-processor consisting of a reaction chamber and several intermediate Coprox reactors. Provided by Hynergreen from Abengoa, the system transforms the bioethanol (BioEtOH) into high purity hydrogen.
The output feeds a series of fuel cells from UTC Power company.»
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-80_Plus-class_submarine>
There are two built currently, but they run on standard diesels. The
third one, the S81 is scheduled to have the actual AIP, and then it will
be retrofitted on the other two.
Which means they are delayed, previously the S82 was scheduled to have it.
On 22/08/2025 21:46, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I don't know. When they made the modern version of the Volkswagen
beetle I hated it. It was no longer a car for the people, but a
luxury thing.
On the other hand, an electric 2CV will be heavy, so it needs a
serious redesign. The original had thin walls, the tiniest bump with
a modern car and it is wreck.
Well maybe not so much, if its limited range only
IIRC it had a two cylinder wasted spark engine up front driving the
front wheels and trailing arm rear suspension with I think coil-over
shocks.
I had a German girlfriend who had one all painted up psychedelic called 'obelix'
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