From Newsgroup: comp.misc

So this Aussie Navy ship that was visiting us lately was putting out
enough power in its navigation radar to cause interference to internet
users and radio reception across a significant part of the country.

<https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/australian-navy-ship-hmas-canberra-causes-internet-outage-in-parts-of-nz/EGBPRF5D5NAURF6LTPCXXFWN5Y/>

Quote from an official:

“Some spectrum bands are free of charge and available for anyone
to use – such as the shared spectrum bands for Wi-Fi and
Bluetooth,” said Dan O’Grady, the ministry’s manager of radio
spectrum policy and planning.

“The interference that occurred on Wednesday was in one of these
shared bands.”

But those shared bands are not a complete free-for-all: there are
supposed to be limits to the power that transmitters are allowed to
have, precisely to avoid this sort of interference.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

So this Aussie Navy ship that was visiting us lately was putting out
enough power in its navigation radar to cause interference to internet
users and radio reception across a significant part of the country.

<https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/australian-navy-ship-hmas-canberra-causes-internet-outage-in-parts-of-nz/EGBPRF5D5NAURF6LTPCXXFWN5Y/>

Quote from an official:

“Some spectrum bands are free of charge and available for anyone
to use – such as the shared spectrum bands for Wi-Fi and
Bluetooth,” said Dan O’Grady, the ministry’s manager of radio
spectrum policy and planning.

“The interference that occurred on Wednesday was in one of these
shared bands.”

But those shared bands are not a complete free-for-all: there are
supposed to be limits to the power that transmitters are allowed to
have, precisely to avoid this sort of interference.

Not to the military. How naive of you.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 08:02:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

So this Aussie Navy ship that was visiting us lately was putting out
enough power in its navigation radar to cause interference to internet >>users and radio reception across a significant part of the country.

<https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/australian-navy-ship-hmas-canberra-causes-internet-outage-in-parts-of-nz/EGBPRF5D5NAURF6LTPCXXFWN5Y/>

Quote from an official:

“Some spectrum bands are free of charge and available for anyone
to use – such as the shared spectrum bands for Wi-Fi and
Bluetooth,�? said Dan O’Grady, the ministry’s manager of radio
spectrum policy and planning.

“The interference that occurred on Wednesday was in one of these
shared bands.�?

But those shared bands are not a complete free-for-all: there are
supposed to be limits to the power that transmitters are allowed to
have, precisely to avoid this sort of interference.

Not to the military. How naive of you.

You appear to believe that we are at war with Australia, Tony - I can
assure you that is not the case. The Australian Navy ship caused the
disruption when approaching Wellington, and adjusted frequencies to
rectify the problem - although many found that setups for coverage
required some work to reconnect. Lawrence is correct that there are
supposed to be limits on usage - and the fact that they were able to
move to other spectrum bands suggests that a mistake was made.

It is possible that our free spectrum bands differ from those in
Australia, but all ships approaching New Zealand waters should be
aware of frequencies they should use. Let us hope that it requires the
close attention of our Defence Minister for as long as possible . . .
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 08:02:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

So this Aussie Navy ship that was visiting us lately was putting out >>>enough power in its navigation radar to cause interference to internet >>>users and radio reception across a significant part of the country.

<https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/australian-navy-ship-hmas-canberra-causes-internet-outage-in-parts-of-nz/EGBPRF5D5NAURF6LTPCXXFWN5Y/>

Quote from an official:

“Some spectrum bands are free of charge and available for anyone
to use – such as the shared spectrum bands for Wi-Fi and
Bluetooth,�? said Dan O’Grady, the ministry’s manager of radio
spectrum policy and planning.

“The interference that occurred on Wednesday was in one of these
shared bands.�?

But those shared bands are not a complete free-for-all: there are >>>supposed to be limits to the power that transmitters are allowed to
have, precisely to avoid this sort of interference.

Not to the military. How naive of you.

You appear to believe that we are at war with Australia, Tony - I can
assure you that is not the case.

Your sarcasm is almost as annoyoing as your stupidity.


The Australian Navy ship caused the

disruption when approaching Wellington, and adjusted frequencies to
rectify the problem

Only after being asked to, it is normal practice to turn off the high power radar when close to friendly ports - they omitted to do that.

- although many found that setups for coverage
required some work to reconnect. Lawrence is correct that there are
supposed to be limits on usage - and the fact that they were able to
move to other spectrum bands suggests that a mistake was made.

Obviously.

It is possible that our free spectrum bands differ from those in
Australia, but all ships approaching New Zealand waters should be
aware of frequencies they should use. Let us hope that it requires the
close attention of our Defence Minister for as long as possible . . .

A masterful statement of the bleeding obvious. If you have nothing to add why post?

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

<https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/australian-navy-ship-hmas-canberra-causes-internet-outage-in-parts-of-nz/EGBPRF5D5NAURF6LTPCXXFWN5Y/>

Quote from an official:

“Some spectrum bands are free of charge and available for anyone
to use – such as the shared spectrum bands for Wi-Fi and
Bluetooth,” said Dan O’Grady, the ministry’s manager of radio
spectrum policy and planning.

“The interference that occurred on Wednesday was in one of these
shared bands.”

But those shared bands are not a complete free-for-all: there are
supposed to be limits to the power that transmitters are allowed to
have, precisely to avoid this sort of interference.

Yes, but the ISM bands are dumping grounds for trash in both the US and the
UK, and users operating ISM devices under Part 18 should have no expectation
of reliability.

The ISM bands were located in places that nobody wanted for any other uses,
and they are generally not very desirable spectrum. Part of why the 2.4 GHz band is undesirable is that both the military and US civilian aviation
folks have high powered radars above and below that band.

http://www.panix.com/~kludge/2.75ghz.gif

And this is fine... except that a lot of consumer devices that use ISM frequencies are cost-engineered to be so cheap that they don't really
perform very well, and strong sources on nearby frequencies cause the
receivers to go deaf. Most people are not going to spend a penny more on
a wifi device to get better RF performance.

Another thing that happens is that.... while the US Army is extremely good about coordinating frequencies with other organizations and making sure
they aren't causing interference (because interference provides intelligence
to the enemy too).... the US Navy is used to being able to just turn stuff
on or off willy-nilly without regard to other users because they are used to being in the middle of the ocean. I live near Norfolk and we frequently
have issues with shared frequencies because nobody on that ship in port bothered to call the base frequency coordinator before turning something on.

I don't know if the Aussies are as bad as the Americans but I would not be surprised.

Summary:

1. People trying to use junk spectrum in ways it was never intended for.
2. People buying cheap equipment with poor RF performance.
3. (Possibly) Navy radarmen not doing the right paperwork.

--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Sun, 8 Jun 2025 12:39:49 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

Part of why the 2.4 GHz band is undesirable is that both the military
and US civilian aviation folks have high powered radars above and below
that band.

Also ... microwave ovens.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 07:33:28 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:

So this Aussie Navy ship that was visiting us lately was putting out
enough power in its navigation radar to cause interference to internet
users and radio reception across a significant part of the country.

This followup report <https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/australian-warship-hmas-canberra-disrupts-internet-in-taranaki-and-marlborough-pm-luxon-seeks-answers/UOILEQLSFNGFBOVGEBE4453WXI/>
says the interference happened specifically on the 5GHz band.

And there is this interesting bit:

The interference triggered in-built switches in the devices that
caused them to go offline, ABC News reported – a safety precaution
to prevent wireless signals interfering with radar systems in New
Zealand’s airspace.

So there are safety cutoffs inside (at least some of) your wi-fi
appliances, so if radars encroach into a band they’re not supposed to
be using, you get pushed aside?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 01:46:02 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:

So there are safety cutoffs inside (at least some of) your wi-fi
appliances, so if radars encroach into a band they’re not supposed to be using, you get pushed aside?

Or maybe not. This other report <https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360717175/government-doesnt-really-know-whats-going-rural-isp-boss-after-warship-blocked-signals>
talks about systems used by ISPs:

Harrison said the systems acted as expected - to "vacate channels"
for military or aviation radar. But he said internet and phone
providers had been asking for years for the spectrum to be
increased so different groups were not forced to share
frequencies.

That doesn’t sound like unlicensed spectrum to me.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Sun, 8 Jun 2025 12:39:49 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

Part of why the 2.4 GHz band is undesirable is that both the military
and US civilian aviation folks have high powered radars above and below
that band.

Also ... microwave ovens.

No, microwave ovens are right in the middle of that band. That's what it's for. It's a dumping ground for unlicensed trash emissions. The microwave ovens and plywood heating machines were there long before the wifi users
were.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2