After spending weeks fighting with Rust's borrow checker, I
discovered ALGOL-FOR-LINUX. Now I spend my time fighting on IRC.
It's a refreshing change!"
--Anonymous Kernel Developer
I think that we could have another nice memory-safe language like
ALGOL 68 in the Linux kernel, alongside C.
--Linus, you know which
ALGOL's 'begin' and 'end' keywords bring a sense of ceremony to
kernel development that's been missing since its inception. Each
function feels like a special event."
--Hector Martin "marcan" Cantero, Linux Hacker
Memory Safety Since 1958
But Rust insists upon itself.
Algol For Linux
ALGOL68
<https://algol68-lang.org/>
On Sun, 13 Jul 2025 17:26:40 -0000 (UTC), Ben Collver wrote:
Memory Safety Since 1958
Kidding, right?
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Ben Collver wrote:
Memory Safety Since 1958
Kidding, right?
He's probably kidding but he's got a point.
The number one security problem with Linux is null-terminated strings.
Algol For Linux
===============
Bringing Memory Safety to the Linux Kernel
Est. 1958
About ALGOL-FOR-LINUX
=====================
Welcome to the ALGOL-FOR-LINUX initiative that's bringing the
time-tested memory safety of ALGOL68 to the Linux kernel. While
others are experimenting with newfangled languages like Rust, we
believe in returning to the roots of computing excellence.
ALGOL (ALGOrithmic Language) was designed in the late 1950s with
memory safety principles that were decades ahead of their time.
By integrating ALGOL68 into the Linux kernel, we're not just
improving security--we're making a statement about the cyclical
nature of computer science innovation and drawing attention to the
neglected history of the field.
ALGOL68 is the 3rd major specification of ALGOL and an ambitious
redesign of the language. It has been regarded as one of the most
influencial programming languages of all times, notable for being
especially efficient, elegant, and correct. Security follows
naturally.
ALGOL68
<https://algol68-lang.org/>
In 2022, the Linux kernel got support for a 2nd high-level language.
But Rust insists upon itself. By 2026, Linux will finally get memory
safety done right.
Memory safety mechanisms are not recent innovations but established techniques dating back to 1961--when they were successfully
implemented in ALGOL. These mechanisms address persistent failure
modes in systems programming. Contrary to common assertions in
systems programming communities, these approaches have historical
precedent and proven effectiveness. The safety features in
ALGOL-FOR-LINUX build upon this technical lineage rather than
representing a novel experimental approach.
Why ALGOL Is Superior for Kernel Development ============================================
���
Memory Safety Since 1958
------------------------
While Rust developers boast about their memory safety, ALGOL has
been safely managing memory since before most rustaceans were born.
���
Beautiful Syntax
----------------
With keywords like 'begin', 'end', and the elegant semicolon,
ALGOL's syntax is so intuitive that even managers can read it. No
more cryptic ownership semantics or lifetime annotations!
ï¸
Time-Tested Performance
-----------------------
Originally designed for resource-constrained environments by modern standards, ALGOL's inherent efficiency translates exceptionally well
to modern hardware. Current implementations demonstrate performance characteristics comparable to established systems languages.
���
Cognitive Simplicity
--------------------
Unlike Rust's complex borrow checker, ALGOL's memory model is so
simple that developers can focus on writing code instead of fighting
the compiler.
Emacs icon
<https://algol-for-linux.com/emacs.svg>
Modern development tools
------------------------
ALGOL 68 mode provides comprehensive support for Emacs, featuring
automatic indentation and complete font locking with syntax
highlighting for all three comment styles.
Modern development tools
Algol For Linux
===============
Bringing Memory Safety to the Linux Kernel
Est. 1958
About ALGOL-FOR-LINUX
=====================
Welcome to the ALGOL-FOR-LINUX initiative that's bringing the
time-tested memory safety of ALGOL68 to the Linux kernel. While
others are experimenting with newfangled languages like Rust, we
believe in returning to the roots of computing excellence.
ALGOL (ALGOrithmic Language) was designed in the late 1950s with
memory safety principles that were decades ahead of their time.
By integrating ALGOL68 into the Linux kernel, we're not just
improving security--we're making a statement about the cyclical
nature of computer science innovation and drawing attention to the
neglected history of the field.
ALGOL68 is the 3rd major specification of ALGOL and an ambitious
redesign of the language. It has been regarded as one of the most
influencial programming languages of all times, notable for being
especially efficient, elegant, and correct. Security follows
naturally.
ALGOL68
<https://algol68-lang.org/>
In 2022, the Linux kernel got support for a 2nd high-level language.
But Rust insists upon itself. By 2026, Linux will finally get memory
safety done right.
Memory safety mechanisms are not recent innovations but established techniques dating back to 1961--when they were successfully
implemented in ALGOL. These mechanisms address persistent failure
modes in systems programming. Contrary to common assertions in
systems programming communities, these approaches have historical
precedent and proven effectiveness. The safety features in
ALGOL-FOR-LINUX build upon this technical lineage rather than
representing a novel experimental approach.
Why ALGOL Is Superior for Kernel Development ============================================
ÑŸâ€â€™
Memory Safety Since 1958
------------------------
While Rust developers boast about their memory safety, ALGOL has
been safely managing memory since before most rustaceans were born.
џ“њ
Beautiful Syntax
----------------
With keywords like 'begin', 'end', and the elegant semicolon,
ALGOL's syntax is so intuitive that even managers can read it. No
more cryptic ownership semantics or lifetime annotations!
пёÐ
Time-Tested Performance
-----------------------
Originally designed for resource-constrained environments by modern standards, ALGOL's inherent efficiency translates exceptionally well
to modern hardware. Current implementations demonstrate performance characteristics comparable to established systems languages.
џ§Â
Cognitive Simplicity
--------------------
Unlike Rust's complex borrow checker, ALGOL's memory model is so
simple that developers can focus on writing code instead of fighting
the compiler.
Emacs icon
<https://algol-for-linux.com/emacs.svg>
Modern development tools
------------------------
ALGOL 68 mode provides comprehensive support for Emacs, featuring
automatic indentation and complete font locking with syntax
highlighting for all three comment styles.
Modern development tools
<https://git.sr.ht/~jemarch/>
Rust icon
<https://algol-for-linux.com/rust.svg>
Pioneering Memory Safety
------------------------
Rust, developed by Mozilla, implements similar safety guarantees to
those originally pioneered in ALGOL, demonstrating the viability of non-garbage-collected memory-safe languages.
Technical Arguments
-------------------
Opponents of ALGOL often claim the complexity of ALGOL68 delayed implementation long enough for other languages to catch up. While it
was simply damn hard ~1970 to implement memory-safe languages
​like ALGOL and Pascal, and when Ritchie made large parts of the behavior "undefined" he also made the compiler very easy to
implement so they moved forward quickly, the KISS principle.
With Rust already being given a green light by the community, it's
now time for ALGOL to step in. The cognitive load of Rust is higher
than for ALGOL while providing less and still not being formally defined.
ALGOL-FOR-LINUX will allow us to take advantage of modern features as
those in CHERI without the encumberment of a rushed language like
C. By using ALGOL with strong types we will have ensured: stack
overflow checking, array/pointer bounds checking, pointer protection,
tags to prevent execution of data, and much more.
CHERI
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Capability_Hardware_Enhanced_RISC_Instructions>
Claims that safe, non-GC systems languages are a recent development
ignore six decades of prior art, often by conflating "safety" with
garbage collection or runtime overhead, which ALGOL disproved outright.
Read more about ALGOL-FOR-LINUX at our announcement on the Linux
kernel mailing list
LKML
<https://lkml.org/>
What Kernel Developers Are Saying
=================================
After spending weeks fighting with Rust's borrow checker, I
discovered ALGOL-FOR-LINUX. Now I spend my time fighting on IRC.
It's a refreshing change!"
--Anonymous Kernel Developer
I think that we could have another nice memory-safe language like
ALGOL 68 in the Linux kernel, alongside C.
--Linus, you know which
ALGOL's 'begin' and 'end' keywords bring a sense of ceremony to
kernel development that's been missing since its inception. Each
function feels like a special event."
--Hector Martin "marcan" Cantero, Linux Hacker
ALGOL-FOR-LINUX Roadmap
=======================
Phase 1: Awareness (Done)
-------------------------
Convince the Linux community that ALGOL68 can be part of the future
of kernel development.
Phase 2: Infrastructure (Current)
---------------------------------
Resurrect ALGOL compilers and integrate them with modern build
systems.
Phase 3: Implementation
-----------------------
Write device drivers in ALGOL.
Phase 4: Domination
-------------------
Complete transition to ALGOL-FOR-LINUX. Begin work on
ALGOL68-FOR-USERSPACE to create the ultimate computing environment.
Thank you to MATACORP, for generous grants in 2022, 2023, and 2024!
We are grateful for the continued support of MATACORP, which has
been instrumental in our success and growth over the past three
years.
MATACORP-
<https://analognowhere.com/wiki/matacorp/>
MATACORP image
<https://algol-for-linux.com/mata_corp.png>
Join the Revolution
===================
Ready to embrace the future? Join our growing community of ALGOL
enthusiasts who believe that memory safety was perfected decades ago.
No prior ALGOL experience is necessary, just a willingness to learn
a simple language.
Developers on board: 68
Join the Movement
<https://algol-for-linux.com/>
В© 1958-2025 ALGOL-FOR-LINUX Initiative - #algol69 at libera.chat
Python is memory safe too you know.
Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote:
Algol For Linux
===============
Bringing Memory Safety to the Linux Kernel
Est. 1958
About ALGOL-FOR-LINUX
=====================
Welcome to the ALGOL-FOR-LINUX initiative that's bringing the
time-tested memory safety of ALGOL68 to the Linux kernel. While
others are experimenting with newfangled languages like Rust, we
believe in returning to the roots of computing excellence.
ALGOL (ALGOrithmic Language) was designed in the late 1950s with
memory safety principles that were decades ahead of their time.
By integrating ALGOL68 into the Linux kernel, we're not just
improving security--we're making a statement about the cyclical
nature of computer science innovation and drawing attention to the
neglected history of the field.
ALGOL68 is the 3rd major specification of ALGOL and an ambitious
redesign of the language. It has been regarded as one of the most
influencial programming languages of all times, notable for being
especially efficient, elegant, and correct. Security follows
naturally.
ALGOL68
<https://algol68-lang.org/>
In 2022, the Linux kernel got support for a 2nd high-level language.
But Rust insists upon itself. By 2026, Linux will finally get memory
safety done right.
Memory safety mechanisms are not recent innovations but established
techniques dating back to 1961--when they were successfully
implemented in ALGOL. These mechanisms address persistent failure
modes in systems programming. Contrary to common assertions in
systems programming communities, these approaches have historical
precedent and proven effectiveness. The safety features in
ALGOL-FOR-LINUX build upon this technical lineage rather than
representing a novel experimental approach.
Why ALGOL Is Superior for Kernel Development
============================================
ÑŸâ€â€™
Memory Safety Since 1958
------------------------
While Rust developers boast about their memory safety, ALGOL has
been safely managing memory since before most rustaceans were born.
џ“њ
Beautiful Syntax
----------------
With keywords like 'begin', 'end', and the elegant semicolon,
ALGOL's syntax is so intuitive that even managers can read it. No
more cryptic ownership semantics or lifetime annotations!
пёÐ
Time-Tested Performance
-----------------------
Originally designed for resource-constrained environments by modern
standards, ALGOL's inherent efficiency translates exceptionally well
to modern hardware. Current implementations demonstrate performance
characteristics comparable to established systems languages.
џ§
Cognitive Simplicity
--------------------
Unlike Rust's complex borrow checker, ALGOL's memory model is so
simple that developers can focus on writing code instead of fighting
the compiler.
Emacs icon
<https://algol-for-linux.com/emacs.svg>
Modern development tools
------------------------
ALGOL 68 mode provides comprehensive support for Emacs, featuring
automatic indentation and complete font locking with syntax
highlighting for all three comment styles.
Modern development tools
<https://git.sr.ht/~jemarch/>
Rust icon
<https://algol-for-linux.com/rust.svg>
Pioneering Memory Safety
------------------------
Rust, developed by Mozilla, implements similar safety guarantees to
those originally pioneered in ALGOL, demonstrating the viability of
non-garbage-collected memory-safe languages.
Technical Arguments
-------------------
Opponents of ALGOL often claim the complexity of ALGOL68 delayed
implementation long enough for other languages to catch up. While it
was simply damn hard ~1970 to implement memory-safe languages
​like ALGOL and Pascal, and when Ritchie made large parts of the
behavior "undefined" he also made the compiler very easy to
implement so they moved forward quickly, the KISS principle.
With Rust already being given a green light by the community, it's
now time for ALGOL to step in. The cognitive load of Rust is higher
than for ALGOL while providing less and still not being formally defined.
ALGOL-FOR-LINUX will allow us to take advantage of modern features as
those in CHERI without the encumberment of a rushed language like
C. By using ALGOL with strong types we will have ensured: stack
overflow checking, array/pointer bounds checking, pointer protection,
tags to prevent execution of data, and much more.
CHERI
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Capability_Hardware_Enhanced_RISC_Instructions>
Claims that safe, non-GC systems languages are a recent development
ignore six decades of prior art, often by conflating "safety" with
garbage collection or runtime overhead, which ALGOL disproved outright.
Read more about ALGOL-FOR-LINUX at our announcement on the Linux
kernel mailing list
LKML
<https://lkml.org/>
What Kernel Developers Are Saying
=================================
After spending weeks fighting with Rust's borrow checker, I
discovered ALGOL-FOR-LINUX. Now I spend my time fighting on IRC.
It's a refreshing change!"
--Anonymous Kernel Developer
I think that we could have another nice memory-safe language like
ALGOL 68 in the Linux kernel, alongside C.
--Linus, you know which
ALGOL's 'begin' and 'end' keywords bring a sense of ceremony to
kernel development that's been missing since its inception. Each
function feels like a special event."
--Hector Martin "marcan" Cantero, Linux Hacker
ALGOL-FOR-LINUX Roadmap
=======================
Phase 1: Awareness (Done)
-------------------------
Convince the Linux community that ALGOL68 can be part of the future
of kernel development.
Phase 2: Infrastructure (Current)
---------------------------------
Resurrect ALGOL compilers and integrate them with modern build
systems.
Phase 3: Implementation
-----------------------
Write device drivers in ALGOL.
Phase 4: Domination
-------------------
Complete transition to ALGOL-FOR-LINUX. Begin work on
ALGOL68-FOR-USERSPACE to create the ultimate computing environment.
Thank you to MATACORP, for generous grants in 2022, 2023, and 2024!
We are grateful for the continued support of MATACORP, which has
been instrumental in our success and growth over the past three
years.
MATACORP-
<https://analognowhere.com/wiki/matacorp/>
MATACORP image
<https://algol-for-linux.com/mata_corp.png>
Join the Revolution
===================
Ready to embrace the future? Join our growing community of ALGOL
enthusiasts who believe that memory safety was perfected decades ago.
No prior ALGOL experience is necessary, just a willingness to learn
a simple language.
Developers on board: 68
Join the Movement
<https://algol-for-linux.com/>
В© 1958-2025 ALGOL-FOR-LINUX Initiative - #algol69 at libera.chat
Python is memory safe too you know.
An interpreted language is not going to end up in the Linux
kernel. Not going to happen.
An interpreted language is not going to end up in the Linux
kernel. Not going to happen.
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Ben Collver wrote:
Memory Safety Since 1958
Kidding, right?
He's probably kidding but he's got a point.
The number one security problem with Linux is null-terminated strings.
I’m not convinced. I skimmed the CVEs listed in [1] and only one of them >had a clear relationship to 0-terminated strings, and even that is a
false positive from Fortify.
[1] https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-33/product_id-47/year-2025/Linux-Linux-Kernel.html
0-terminated strings are certainly a bad design (for multiple reasons)
but there’s a lot of other well-known security pitfalls in the C
language.
| Sysop: | DaiTengu |
|---|---|
| Location: | Appleton, WI |
| Users: | 1,064 |
| Nodes: | 10 (0 / 10) |
| Uptime: | 148:06:45 |
| Calls: | 13,691 |
| Calls today: | 1 |
| Files: | 186,936 |
| D/L today: |
33 files (6,120K bytes) |
| Messages: | 2,410,932 |
