From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On Tue, 15 Jul 2025 17:04:48 +0000, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:

Message-Id: <20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org>

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new
now in tracking people. Some phones today (probably android and apple)
are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the
data on your phone. When you turn them back on, the phone then sends
the tracking data to a server. The only way to defeat this is to put
your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

in the greater context of everything in their surveillance arsenal that's tracking everything and everyone universally (globally, worldwide) at all times, phones, even old-fashioned landlines (vulnerable to wiretaps since
the horseless carriage https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pen+trap+trace+telegraph) anything wireless or connected to any source of power is surely monitored continuously . . . the only good news is that the only thing they've ever
cared about is what the bible calls "cupidity", the star-crossed marriage
of vanity and avarice, so anything that is not that is not on their radar

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 15 Jul 2025, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> posted some news:20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org:

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new
now in tracking people. Some phones today (probably android and apple)
are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the
data on your phone. When you turn them back on, the phone then sends
the tracking data to a server. The only way to defeat this is to put
your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

I sense an opportunity for money here.

All the cell phone providers are selling your financial data to third
parties. It's time for a class action lawsuit.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-15 21:47, D wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2025 17:04:48 +0000, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:

Message-Id: <20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org>

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new
now in tracking people. Some phones today (probably android and apple)
are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the
data on your phone. When you turn them back on, the phone then sends
the tracking data to a server. The only way to defeat this is to put
your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

This is ridiculous.

in the greater context of everything in their surveillance arsenal that's tracking everything and everyone universally (globally, worldwide) at all times, phones, even old-fashioned landlines (vulnerable to wiretaps since
the horseless carriage https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pen+trap+trace+telegraph) anything wireless or connected to any source of power is surely monitored continuously . . . the only good news is that the only thing they've ever cared about is what the bible calls "cupidity", the star-crossed marriage
of vanity and avarice, so anything that is not that is not on their radar

--
Cheers, Carlos.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-15 16:24, Nomen Nescio wrote:

On 15 Jul 2025, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> posted some news:20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org:

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new
now in tracking people. Some phones today (probably android and apple)
are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the
data on your phone. When you turn them back on, the phone then sends
the tracking data to a server. The only way to defeat this is to put
your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

I sense an opportunity for money here.

All the cell phone providers are selling your financial data to third parties. It's time for a class action lawsuit.

I've actually contemplated a class action lawsuit against Telus (one of
my local telecom providers) for turning the email service I paid them to provide me to a Google account.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On Wed, 16 Jul 2025 02:09:07 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :

On 2025-07-15 21:47, D wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2025 17:04:48 +0000, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:

Message-Id: <20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org>

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new
now in tracking people. Some phones today (probably android and apple)
are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the
data on your phone. When you turn them back on, the phone then sends
the tracking data to a server. The only way to defeat this is to put
your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

This is ridiculous.

I care about privacy, but I don't understand "tags" nor "findmyphone"
tracking yet, mainly because I haven't ever thought about using them.

However, what little I do know is that the iPhone 11 and later, excluding
some SE models have a feature that allows them to be located even when
turned off or when the battery has run out. This is because they have an
Ultra Wideband chip and a "power reserve" feature for the Find My network.

This means that even if you turn off your iPhone 11 or newer, it can still
act as a relay for an AirTag's location, and its own location can be seen
in the Find My app. Wikipedia says it's five hours after the battery dies.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Find_My>

Android phones have their own "Find My Device" network for locating lost Android devices but as far as know, they won't work if the phone is off.

All this can be wrong, but there is "some" truth to the fact that an iPhone that "appears" to have a dead battery, can still participate in finding it.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 16.07.25 02:09, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-07-15 21:47, D wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2025 17:04:48 +0000, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:

Message-Id: <20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org>

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new
now in tracking people. Some phones today (probably android and apple)
are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the
data on your phone. When you turn them back on, the phone then sends
the tracking data to a server. The only way to defeat this is to put
your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

This is ridiculous.

Very much so!
--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-15 23:24:06 +0000, Nomen Nescio said:

On 15 Jul 2025, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> posted some news:20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org:

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new
now in tracking people. Some phones today (probably android and apple)
are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the
data on your phone. When you turn them back on, the phone then sends
the tracking data to a server. The only way to defeat this is to put
your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

I sense an opportunity for money here.

All the cell phone providers are selling your financial data to third parties. It's time for a class action lawsuit.

Phones and tablets haven't had an actual OFF button for a long time.
Even simply removing the battery is becoming a rare ability these days.

Apple has been able to do software updates on new phones sitting sealed
on retailer shelves for little while, and now they are on about being
able to do the same with Mac laptop computerss while still in the box
on retailer shelves, so that means they won't ever be truly OFF either
... thankfully it is difficult to do with Mac desktop computers,
although no doubt they too will eventually get the same "feature" via a
built in battery.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-16 05:54, Marion wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jul 2025 02:09:07 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :

On 2025-07-15 21:47, D wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2025 17:04:48 +0000, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:

Message-Id: <20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org>

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new >>>> now in tracking people. Some phones today (probably android and apple) >>>> are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the >>>> data on your phone. When you turn them back on, the phone then sends
the tracking data to a server. The only way to defeat this is to put
your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

This is ridiculous.

I care about privacy, but I don't understand "tags" nor "findmyphone" tracking yet, mainly because I haven't ever thought about using them.

However, what little I do know is that the iPhone 11 and later, excluding some SE models have a feature that allows them to be located even when
turned off or when the battery has run out. This is because they have an Ultra Wideband chip and a "power reserve" feature for the Find My network.

This means that even if you turn off your iPhone 11 or newer, it can still act as a relay for an AirTag's location, and its own location can be seen
in the Find My app. Wikipedia says it's five hours after the battery dies.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Find_My>

Read carefully the paragraph I quoted and you will see that the method
of Airtags is not what is described. The paragraph implies that the
phone on its own finds its own location (GPS?), stores it, and then
uplodads it when finally powered up. All that requires significant power.

Airtags use low power Bluetooth to request passersby to do the job of
locating them and uploading that location to some central store. Thus
they work for a year or two on a button battery. Possibly could work on
the reserve power of a phone main battery.

It is not unthinkable for phones to have Airtag capability, but surely
this must be documented, in order to be useful to the owner, who wants
to find his own phone. To do that, he has to register the Airtag info somewhere and save that data somewhere else. And possibly the feature
can be disabled or be optional.


All this means that the quoted paragraph is ridiculous.

Android phones have their own "Find My Device" network for locating lost Android devices but as far as know, they won't work if the phone is off.

All this can be wrong, but there is "some" truth to the fact that an iPhone that "appears" to have a dead battery, can still participate in finding it.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

Carlos E.R. wrote:

D wrote:

Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new >>> now in tracking people.  Some phones today (probably android and apple) >>> are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the

data on your phone.  When you turn them back on, the phone then sends
the tracking data to a server.  The only way to defeat this is to put
your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

This is ridiculous.

For the moment agree, but there's a grain of truth behind it ... There
have always been the tin-foil hat brigade, who claim phones are never
really "off", but these days that's actually true for certain phones.

In the name of making lost devices findable, the last act of turning a
phone "off" or the battery getting low, is that is notes its location, pre-generates some beacon frames with (encrypted?) details of its id and location, then it activates a low power background CPU which
periodically wakes up, and transmits those beacons over bluetooth, in
the hope that a passing device hears them, and forwards them to the mothership.

Now, I don't claim that this background activity is actively gathering location info while off, but we're no longer a million miles from that,
and "off" no longer means literally off ...

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On Jul 16, 2025 at 1:07:11 AM EDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

On 2025-07-15 23:24:06 +0000, Nomen Nescio said:

On 15 Jul 2025, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> posted some
news:20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org:

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new
now in tracking people. Some phones today (probably android and apple)
are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the
data on your phone. When you turn them back on, the phone then sends
the tracking data to a server. The only way to defeat this is to put
your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

I sense an opportunity for money here.

All the cell phone providers are selling your financial data to third
parties. It's time for a class action lawsuit.

Phones and tablets haven't had an actual OFF button for a long time.
Even simply removing the battery is becoming a rare ability these days.

The off button on iPhones and iPads does just that. The phone IS off

Apple has been able to do software updates on new phones sitting sealed
on retailer shelves for little while,

Which requires a special "rack" to put the boxes in, which FIRST TURNS THE PHONE ON, then updates it, then TURNS IT OFF AGAIN. Not "sitting on retailer shelves".

And it will only apply to Apple stores. I got an iPhone 16 Pro Max a few weeks ago, from the company I work for. Not from an Apple Store. The first thing that happened was the iOS update.

So don't make it sound like Apple can update - OR DO ANYTHING ELSE - to a
phone while it is turned off and sitting on your desk.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 16.07.25 14:43, Tyrone wrote:

On Jul 16, 2025 at 1:07:11 AM EDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

Apple has been able to do software updates on new phones sitting sealed
on retailer shelves for little while,

Which requires a special "rack" to put the boxes in, which FIRST TURNS THE PHONE ON, then updates it, then TURNS IT OFF AGAIN. Not "sitting on retailer shelves".

And it will only apply to Apple stores. I got an iPhone 16 Pro Max a few weeks
ago, from the company I work for. Not from an Apple Store. The first thing that happened was the iOS update.

So don't make it sound like Apple can update - OR DO ANYTHING ELSE - to a phone while it is turned off and sitting on your desk.

Thank you! There are a lot of ignorant idiots around, especially in this group.
--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 16.07.25 01:24, Nomen Nescio wrote:

On 15 Jul 2025, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> posted some news:20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org:

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new
now in tracking people. Some phones today (probably android and apple)
are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the
data on your phone. When you turn them back on, the phone then sends
the tracking data to a server. The only way to defeat this is to put
your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

I sense an opportunity for money here.

All the cell phone providers are selling your financial data to third parties. It's time for a class action lawsuit.

Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> *LOL*
Nothing but conspiracy theories from a braindead Troll!
--
"De gustibus non est disputandum."
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:

Carlos E.R. wrote:

D wrote:

Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new >>>> now in tracking people.  Some phones today (probably android and apple) >>>> are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the >>>> data on your phone.  When you turn them back on, the phone then sends >>>> the tracking data to a server.  The only way to defeat this is to put >>>> your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

This is ridiculous.

For the moment agree, but there's a grain of truth behind it ... There
have always been the tin-foil hat brigade, who claim phones are never
really "off", but these days that's actually true for certain phones.

In the name of making lost devices findable, the last act of turning a
phone "off" or the battery getting low, is that is notes its location, pre-generates some beacon frames with (encrypted?) details of its id
and location, then it activates a low power background CPU which
periodically wakes up, and transmits those beacons over bluetooth, in
the hope that a passing device hears them, and forwards them to the mothership.

Now, I don't claim that this background activity is actively gathering location info while off, but we're no longer a million miles from
that, and "off" no longer means literally off ...

How does one verify that this is, or is not, happening?

And why did this thread which started in a different newsgroup appear
here?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

Richmond wrote:

Andy Burns writes:

Now, I don't claim that this background activity is actively gathering
location info while off, but we're no longer a million miles from
that, and "off" no longer means literally off ...

How does one verify that this is, or is not, happening?

It was discussed last year when Google "beefed-up" the FindMy Device
feature, e.g.

my search terms were "Pixel8 transmit findmy while off"

<https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/8/24123909/google-pixel-8-pro-offline-dead-battery-location-finding>

<https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1cnt2iq/find_my_device_can_locate_pixel_8_for_a_few_hours/>

They've now renamed it to "FindMy Hub" in Android16

And why did this thread which started in a different newsgroup appear
here?

I also wondered where <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org>'s message came from,
no sign of a x-post, or previous group
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:

Richmond wrote:

Andy Burns writes:

Now, I don't claim that this background activity is actively gathering
location info while off, but we're no longer a million miles from
that, and "off" no longer means literally off ...

How does one verify that this is, or is not, happening?

It was discussed last year when Google "beefed-up" the FindMy Device
feature, e.g.

my search terms were "Pixel8 transmit findmy while off"

<https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/8/24123909/google-pixel-8-pro-offline-dead-battery-location-finding>

<https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1cnt2iq/find_my_device_can_locate_pixel_8_for_a_few_hours/>

They've now renamed it to "FindMy Hub" in Android16

And why did this thread which started in a different newsgroup appear
here?

I also wondered where <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org>'s message came from,
no sign of a x-post, or previous group

The original was in alt.privacy.anon-server
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:

On Jul 16, 2025 at 1:07:11 AM EDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

On 2025-07-15 23:24:06 +0000, Nomen Nescio said:

On 15 Jul 2025, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> posted some
news:20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org:

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new >>>> now in tracking people. Some phones today (probably android and apple) >>>> are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the >>>> data on your phone. When you turn them back on, the phone then sends
the tracking data to a server. The only way to defeat this is to put
your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

I sense an opportunity for money here.

All the cell phone providers are selling your financial data to third
parties. It's time for a class action lawsuit.

Phones and tablets haven't had an actual OFF button for a long time.
Even simply removing the battery is becoming a rare ability these days.

The off button on iPhones and iPads does just that. The phone IS off

Some functions still are active e.g. Find My.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

Tyrone wrote:

Apple has been able to do software updates on new phones sitting
sealed on retailer shelves for little while,

Which requires a special "rack" to put the boxes in, which FIRST
TURNS THE PHONE ON, then updates it, then TURNS IT OFF AGAIN. Not
"sitting on retailer shelves".

So how does the special rack turn ON the phone and then turn OFF the
phone? Something must be listening for that special signal from the
special rack.
--
"The Bible tells us to love our neighbors and also to love our enemies; probably because generally they are the same people." ~ G. K. Chesterton
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-16 09:47, Chris wrote:

Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:

On Jul 16, 2025 at 1:07:11 AM EDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

On 2025-07-15 23:24:06 +0000, Nomen Nescio said:

On 15 Jul 2025, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> posted some
news:20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org:

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new >>>>> now in tracking people. Some phones today (probably android and apple) >>>>> are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the >>>>> data on your phone. When you turn them back on, the phone then sends >>>>> the tracking data to a server. The only way to defeat this is to put >>>>> your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

I sense an opportunity for money here.

All the cell phone providers are selling your financial data to third
parties. It's time for a class action lawsuit.

Phones and tablets haven't had an actual OFF button for a long time.
Even simply removing the battery is becoming a rare ability these days.

The off button on iPhones and iPads does just that. The phone IS off

Some functions still are active e.g. Find My.

Yup. At least, that's my understanding.

The thing is that the whole process is encrypted.

The phone's Bluetooth radio keeps working in a low-power mode along with
the U1 chip running an applet that sends encrypted beacon messages that
other Apple devices pick up and pass on.

But if you really want to turn it off entirely, you can tap on the
message you get at shut down that says, "iPhone Findable After Power
Off", and you'll get a dialog which explains more about why and offers
you the option to "Temporarily Turn Off Finding"
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-16 09:59, badgolferman wrote:

Tyrone wrote:

Apple has been able to do software updates on new phones sitting
sealed on retailer shelves for little while,

Which requires a special "rack" to put the boxes in, which FIRST
TURNS THE PHONE ON, then updates it, then TURNS IT OFF AGAIN. Not
"sitting on retailer shelves".

So how does the special rack turn ON the phone and then turn OFF the
phone? Something must be listening for that special signal from the
special rack.

Yup. Apple's U1 chip and the Bluetooth radio operating in low-power mode.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

On 2025-07-16 09:59, badgolferman wrote:

Tyrone wrote:

Apple has been able to do software updates on new phones sitting
sealed on retailer shelves for little while,

Which requires a special "rack" to put the boxes in, which FIRST
TURNS THE PHONE ON, then updates it, then TURNS IT OFF AGAIN. Not
"sitting on retailer shelves".

So how does the special rack turn ON the phone and then turn OFF the
phone? Something must be listening for that special signal from the
special rack.

Yup. Apple's U1 chip and the Bluetooth radio operating in low-power mode.

In that case Your Name was correct. The phone can’t be completely shut off from the world.

So now who is wrong?

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

Nomen Nescio <***@dizum.com> *LOL*
Nothing but conspiracy theories from a braindead Troll!

Read this Jörg Lorenz...

When you switch off your computer and then switch it back on again the clock keeps time.

The Power of Mockery...

The Mockery Machine: Why Authoritarians Fear and Ridicule Conspiracy Theorists

In today’s world, the term “conspiracy theorist” often conjures images of eccentric individuals clutching cryptic notes and spouting improbable scenarios. While these stereotypes may seem harmless or even humorous, they serve a much darker purpose: undermining those who dare to question official narratives. Mockery is not just a social phenomenon; it’s a deliberate tactic used by authoritarians and elites to silence dissent, manipulate public perception, and maintain control.

Let’s dive into why this strategy is so effective, how it has evolved, and how we can resist its grip on society.
The Origin of the “Conspiracy Theorist” Label

The term “conspiracy theorist” wasn’t always a derogatory label. Historically, it referred to anyone who proposed that events or circumstances might result from secretive or coordinated efforts. However, in the 20th century, the term was weaponized to discredit dissenters.

A pivotal moment came in the wake of President John F. Kennedy’s assassination in 1963. The CIA, in response to skepticism surrounding the Warren Commission’s findings, issued a memo (later declassified) encouraging the use of “conspiracy theorist” as a dismissive term. This strategy aimed to marginalize those questioning the narrative, framing them as irrational or untrustworthy.
Why Tyrants Fear Conspiracy Theorists

Tyrants and oppressive regimes thrive on control, and their greatest fear is losing it. Conspiracy theorists, by challenging official narratives and encouraging skepticism, pose a significant threat.

Disrupting the Official Story...

Authoritarian regimes rely on carefully crafted stories to maintain their legitimacy. Conspiracy theorists expose inconsistencies, forcing others to question what they’re being told.

Encouraging Independent Thought...

Conspiracy theorists inspire others to think critically and seek alternative explanations. This undermines the “trust us” approach of authoritarian figures.

Exposing Real Conspiracies...

While not all theories hold water, history has proven that some conspiracies are real. From government surveillance programs to corporate malfeasance, these revelations often start with skeptical individuals piecing together clues.

The Power of Mockery...

Mockery is one of the most effective tools for silencing dissent. It turns legitimate questions into punchlines and makes the act of questioning authority seem laughable. Here’s how it works:

The Tin Foil Hat Trope...

The enduring image of conspiracy theorists as tin foil hat-wearers suggests paranoia and absurdity. This caricature trivializes their concerns and dismisses them without addressing their arguments.

Stigmatizing Skepticism...

When someone is labeled a “conspiracy theorist,” they are often viewed as irrational or unhinged. This stigma discourages others from engaging with their ideas or questioning the status quo themselves.

Mockery as a Social Weapon...

Public ridicule isolates dissenters, discouraging open dialogue. It’s easier to laugh at someone than to consider the validity of their arguments, especially when society has been conditioned to associate questioning authority with absurdity.

The Media’s Role in Perpetuating Ridicule...

Mainstream media amplifies the mockery of conspiracy theorists through selective representation and sensationalism.

Highlighting the Fringe...

Media outlets often focus on the most extreme or bizarre theories, ignoring legitimate questions or concerns. This creates a false equivalency, where all dissenters are painted with the same brush.

Framing Dissent as Dangerous...

Increasingly, questioning authority is framed not as skepticism but as spreading “misinformation” or even posing a threat to public safety. This shifts the narrative from ridicule to outright hostility.

Psychological Tactics Used to Dismiss Dissent...

The mockery machine employs several psychological tactics to marginalize conspiracy theorists and discredit their ideas.

Gaslighting...

By dismissing dissenters as “paranoid” or “delusional,” those in power make individuals question their own perceptions and judgments.

Fear of Social Rejection...

Ridicule leverages our natural desire for acceptance, discouraging people from exploring controversial ideas for fear of being ostracized.

Normalizing Dismissal...

Society has been conditioned to laugh at conspiracy theorists without engaging with their arguments, creating a culture where skepticism is suppressed before it can even begin.

Why This Matters...

Mockery and ridicule are not just about silencing conspiracy theorists—they’re about controlling the population. By turning the public against those who question authority, tyrants maintain their grip on power.

History has shown us that dissent is vital for progress. Many truths that were once dismissed as “crazy” or “impossible” have been vindicated over time. It’s a reminder that skepticism is not the enemy; it’s a cornerstone of a healthy, questioning society.
Breaking Free from the Mockery Machine

Recognize the Manipulation...

Understand that ridicule is a deliberate tactic to suppress critical thinking and dissent.

Focus on Evidence...

Encourage reasoned debates based on facts and credible research rather than stereotypes or assumptions.

Support Open Dialogue...

Create spaces for respectful discussion where ideas can be shared and challenged without fear of ridicule.

Educate Yourself and Others...

Knowledge is the best defense against manipulation. Learn about psychological tactics, historical examples, and the importance of skepticism.

Why Memes Terrify the Powerful...

The Battle Against Propaganda in the Digital Age. This deep dive reveals how humor, imagery, and social media are challenging traditional propaganda in ways that even the most powerful regimes struggle to contain.

Conclusion...

Ridicule may be a powerful tool, but it’s one that can be countered with awareness and collective resistance. By recognizing the tactics used to suppress dissent, fostering critical thinking, and building communities that value open dialogue, we can challenge the mockery machine and empower those who dare to question authority.

https://theawakeningfront.com/the-mockery-machine-why-authoritarians-fear-and-ridicule-conspiracy-theorists/

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-16 10:41, badgolferman wrote:

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

On 2025-07-16 09:59, badgolferman wrote:

Tyrone wrote:

Apple has been able to do software updates on new phones sitting
sealed on retailer shelves for little while,

Which requires a special "rack" to put the boxes in, which FIRST
TURNS THE PHONE ON, then updates it, then TURNS IT OFF AGAIN. Not
"sitting on retailer shelves".

So how does the special rack turn ON the phone and then turn OFF the
phone? Something must be listening for that special signal from the
special rack.

Yup. Apple's U1 chip and the Bluetooth radio operating in low-power mode.

In that case Your Name was correct. The phone can’t be completely shut off from the world.

So now who is wrong?

He is.

"Apple has been able to do software updates on new phones sitting sealed
on retailer shelves for little while"

That's wrong.

The iOS device has to go into a special device to allow it.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:

Richmond wrote:

Andy Burns writes:

Now, I don't claim that this background activity is actively gathering >>> location info while off, but we're no longer a million miles from
that, and "off" no longer means literally off ...

How does one verify that this is, or is not, happening?

It was discussed last year when Google "beefed-up" the FindMy Device feature, e.g.

my search terms were "Pixel8 transmit findmy while off"

<https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/8/24123909/google-pixel-8-pro-offline-dead-battery-location-finding>

<https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1cnt2iq/find_my_device_can_locate_pixel_8_for_a_few_hours/>

They've now renamed it to "FindMy Hub" in Android16

And why did this thread which started in a different newsgroup appear
here?

I also wondered where <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org>'s message came from,
no sign of a x-post, or previous group

The original was in alt.privacy.anon-server

Yes, and 'D' *moved* it to this group (comp.mobile.android) - i.e. he
did not cross-post it - without saying so. Typical troll behaviour. No
wonder he's in my filter.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-16 19:20, Alan wrote:

...

But if you really want to turn it off entirely, you can tap on the
message you get at shut down that says, "iPhone Findable After Power
Off", and you'll get a dialog which explains more about why and offers
you the option to "Temporarily Turn Off Finding"

Ah! I thought there would be something like that. Maybe somewhere else
it can be turned permanently off?
--
Cheers, Carlos.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-16 14:43, Tyrone wrote:

On Jul 16, 2025 at 1:07:11 AM EDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

On 2025-07-15 23:24:06 +0000, Nomen Nescio said:

On 15 Jul 2025, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> posted some
news:20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org:

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new >>>> now in tracking people. Some phones today (probably android and apple) >>>> are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the >>>> data on your phone. When you turn them back on, the phone then sends
the tracking data to a server. The only way to defeat this is to put
your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

I sense an opportunity for money here.

All the cell phone providers are selling your financial data to third
parties. It's time for a class action lawsuit.

Phones and tablets haven't had an actual OFF button for a long time.
Even simply removing the battery is becoming a rare ability these days.

The off button on iPhones and iPads does just that. The phone IS off

Apple has been able to do software updates on new phones sitting sealed
on retailer shelves for little while,

Which requires a special "rack" to put the boxes in, which FIRST TURNS THE PHONE ON, then updates it, then TURNS IT OFF AGAIN. Not "sitting on retailer shelves".

Wireless charging, perhaps?

Running updates on a device with an unknown battery state can not be
very reliable. You might discharge the battery completely in the middle
of the update and brick the device before selling it. And no battery at
all when the new owner tries.

And it will only apply to Apple stores. I got an iPhone 16 Pro Max a few weeks
ago, from the company I work for. Not from an Apple Store. The first thing that happened was the iOS update.

So don't make it sound like Apple can update - OR DO ANYTHING ELSE - to a phone while it is turned off and sitting on your desk.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-16 11:53, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-07-16 19:20, Alan wrote:

...

But if you really want to turn it off entirely, you can tap on the
message you get at shut down that says, "iPhone Findable After Power
Off", and you'll get a dialog which explains more about why and offers
you the option to "Temporarily Turn Off Finding"

Ah! I thought there would be something like that. Maybe somewhere else
it can be turned permanently off?

Turn off the "Find My" feature in Settings of course!
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-16 11:57, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-07-16 14:43, Tyrone wrote:

On Jul 16, 2025 at 1:07:11 AM EDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com>
wrote:

On 2025-07-15 23:24:06 +0000, Nomen Nescio said:

On 15 Jul 2025, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> posted some
news:20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org:

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new >>>>> now in tracking people.  Some phones today (probably android and
apple)
are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the >>>>> data on your phone.  When you turn them back on, the phone then sends >>>>> the tracking data to a server.  The only way to defeat this is to put >>>>> your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

I sense an opportunity for money here.

All the cell phone providers are selling your financial data to third
parties.  It's time for a class action lawsuit.

Phones and tablets haven't had an actual OFF button for a long time.
Even simply removing the battery is becoming a rare ability these days.

The off button on iPhones and iPads does just that.   The phone IS off

Apple has been able to do software updates on new phones sitting sealed
on retailer shelves for little while,

Which requires a special "rack" to put the boxes in, which FIRST TURNS
THE
PHONE ON, then updates it, then TURNS IT OFF AGAIN.  Not "sitting on
retailer
shelves".

Wireless charging, perhaps?

Running updates on a device with an unknown battery state can not be
very reliable. You might discharge the battery completely in the middle
of the update and brick the device before selling it. And no battery at
all when the new owner tries.

It's almost like Apple knows what they're doing.

:-)
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-16 21:36, Alan wrote:

On 2025-07-16 11:57, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-07-16 14:43, Tyrone wrote:

On Jul 16, 2025 at 1:07:11 AM EDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> >>> wrote:

On 2025-07-15 23:24:06 +0000, Nomen Nescio said:

On 15 Jul 2025, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> posted some
news:20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org:

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something >>>>>> new
now in tracking people.  Some phones today (probably android and >>>>>> apple)
are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store >>>>>> the
data on your phone.  When you turn them back on, the phone then sends >>>>>> the tracking data to a server.  The only way to defeat this is to put >>>>>> your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

I sense an opportunity for money here.

All the cell phone providers are selling your financial data to third >>>>> parties.  It's time for a class action lawsuit.

Phones and tablets haven't had an actual OFF button for a long time.
Even simply removing the battery is becoming a rare ability these days. >>>

The off button on iPhones and iPads does just that.   The phone IS off >>>

Apple has been able to do software updates on new phones sitting sealed >>>> on retailer shelves for little while,

Which requires a special "rack" to put the boxes in, which FIRST
TURNS THE
PHONE ON, then updates it, then TURNS IT OFF AGAIN.  Not "sitting on
retailer
shelves".

Wireless charging, perhaps?

Running updates on a device with an unknown battery state can not be
very reliable. You might discharge the battery completely in the
middle of the update and brick the device before selling it. And no
battery at all when the new owner tries.

It's almost like Apple knows what they're doing.

:-)

But I am curious as to how.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On Jul 16, 2025 at 1:41:34 PM EDT, "badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

On 2025-07-16 09:59, badgolferman wrote:

Tyrone wrote:

Apple has been able to do software updates on new phones sitting
sealed on retailer shelves for little while,

Which requires a special "rack" to put the boxes in, which FIRST
TURNS THE PHONE ON, then updates it, then TURNS IT OFF AGAIN. Not
"sitting on retailer shelves".

So how does the special rack turn ON the phone and then turn OFF the
phone? Something must be listening for that special signal from the
special rack.

Yup. Apple's U1 chip and the Bluetooth radio operating in low-power mode.

In that case Your Name was correct. The phone can’t be completely shut off from the world.

So now who is wrong?

Your Name is wrong. The phone IS shut off. Apple is using NFC to send a signal to the phones IN THE SPECIAL RACK, BUILT FOR THIS PURPOSE. This powers up the phone, starts wireless charging, updates the phone and TURNS IT OFF
when completed.

BTW, I have seen no evidence that this is working 100% and is being done. All the stories I have seen say "this is coming, maybe...".

So again, this is only possible when Apple has physical access to the phones.
It CAN'T be done while your phone is off, in your house. Nor can it be done "sitting on retailer shelves".
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-16 13:27, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-07-16 21:36, Alan wrote:

On 2025-07-16 11:57, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-07-16 14:43, Tyrone wrote:

On Jul 16, 2025 at 1:07:11 AM EDT, "Your Name"
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

On 2025-07-15 23:24:06 +0000, Nomen Nescio said:

On 15 Jul 2025, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> posted some
news:20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org:

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing
something new
now in tracking people.  Some phones today (probably android and >>>>>>> apple)
are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and
store the
data on your phone.  When you turn them back on, the phone then >>>>>>> sends
the tracking data to a server.  The only way to defeat this is to >>>>>>> put
your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

I sense an opportunity for money here.

All the cell phone providers are selling your financial data to third >>>>>> parties.  It's time for a class action lawsuit.

Phones and tablets haven't had an actual OFF button for a long time. >>>>> Even simply removing the battery is becoming a rare ability these
days.

The off button on iPhones and iPads does just that.   The phone IS off >>>>

Apple has been able to do software updates on new phones sitting
sealed
on retailer shelves for little while,

Which requires a special "rack" to put the boxes in, which FIRST
TURNS THE
PHONE ON, then updates it, then TURNS IT OFF AGAIN.  Not "sitting on >>>> retailer
shelves".

Wireless charging, perhaps?

Running updates on a device with an unknown battery state can not be
very reliable. You might discharge the battery completely in the
middle of the update and brick the device before selling it. And no
battery at all when the new owner tries.

It's almost like Apple knows what they're doing.

:-)

But I am curious as to how.

No computer built since the button battery to run the clock chip was
added is ever truly off.

So this is just an extension of that idea.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-16 20:45:27 +0000, Tyrone said:

On Jul 16, 2025 at 1:41:34 PM EDT, "badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

On 2025-07-16 09:59, badgolferman wrote:

Tyrone wrote:

Apple has been able to do software updates on new phones sitting
sealed on retailer shelves for little while,

Which requires a special "rack" to put the boxes in, which FIRST
TURNS THE PHONE ON, then updates it, then TURNS IT OFF AGAIN. Not
"sitting on retailer shelves".

So how does the special rack turn ON the phone and then turn OFF the
phone? Something must be listening for that special signal from the
special rack.

Yup. Apple's U1 chip and the Bluetooth radio operating in low-power mode. >>

In that case Your Name was correct. The phone can’t be completely shut off >> from the world.

So now who is wrong?

Your Name is wrong. The phone IS shut off. Apple is using NFC to send a signal to the phones

Yes, so the phone is on in some form to listen for that signal. As I
said, "low powered or not, they are not *COMPLETELY* off. If they were *COMPLETELY* off they wouldn't be able to respond to *ANY* signals at
all.

IN THE SPECIAL RACK,

And where is that "special rack" ... it's int the retailers shop (an
Apple Store is still a retailer), i.e. it's a "retailer's shelf". :-\

Few, if any, retail actually stores have piles of devices sitting on
regular customer accessbile shelves because they would be too easily
stolen. It would be easy enough to simply store boxes of phones on
shelves with this functionality, with updates happening automatically
whenever neceessary.

BUILT FOR THIS PURPOSE. This powers up the phone, starts wireless
charging, updates the phone and TURNS IT OFF when completed.

BTW, I have seen no evidence that this is working 100% and is being done. All the stories I have seen say "this is coming, maybe...".

The news stories in March 2024 said Apple planned to have it in all US
stores in April 2024. Whether that plan actually happened or not hasn't
been reported.

So again, this is only possible when Apple has physical access to the phones.
It CAN'T be done while your phone is off, in your house. Nor can it be done "sitting on retailer shelves".

It would be relatively easy to put this functionality into a wireless
charging pad (adimitedly perhaps larger than normal). So even though
your phone is supposedly "off" it can still install updates.



--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-16 15:46, Your Name wrote:

On 2025-07-16 20:45:27 +0000, Tyrone said:

On Jul 16, 2025 at 1:41:34 PM EDT, "badgolferman"
<REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

On 2025-07-16 09:59, badgolferman wrote:

Tyrone wrote:

Apple has been able to do software updates on new phones sitting >>>>>>> sealed  on retailer shelves for little while,

Which requires a special "rack" to put the boxes in, which FIRST
TURNS THE PHONE ON, then updates it, then TURNS IT OFF AGAIN.  Not >>>>>> "sitting on retailer shelves".

So how does the special rack turn ON the phone and then turn OFF the >>>>> phone?  Something must be listening for that special signal from the >>>>> special rack.

Yup. Apple's U1 chip and the Bluetooth radio operating in low-power
mode.

In that case Your Name was correct. The phone can’t be completely
shut off
from the world.

So now who is wrong?

Your Name is wrong.  The phone IS shut off.  Apple is using NFC to send a >> signal to the phones

Yes, so the phone is on in some form to listen for that signal. As I
said, "low powered or not, they are not *COMPLETELY* off. If they were *COMPLETELY* off they wouldn't be able to respond to *ANY* signals at all.

And computers have been able to be started using a "wake-on-lan" packet
for what... ...a couple of decades now; or is it more like three decades?

Where have you been?

IN THE SPECIAL RACK,

And where is that "special rack" ... it's int the retailers shop (an
Apple Store is still a retailer), i.e. it's a "retailer's shelf".  :-\

No. This:

<https://9to5mac.com/2025/07/09/exclusive-macos-26-beta-hints-at-sealed-mac-updates-at-apple-stores/>

Is NOT a "retailer's shelf".

Few, if any, retail actually stores have piles of devices sitting on
regular customer accessbile shelves because they would be too easily
stolen. It would be easy enough to simply store boxes of phones on
shelves with this functionality, with updates happening automatically whenever neceessary.

Except those shelves would need to never have more than one device piled
on another (because a part of the process is wireless charging), and a
method for making sure the alignment of the devices was correct.

In short. Not just shelves.

BUILT FOR THIS PURPOSE. This powers up the phone, starts wireless
charging, updates the phone and TURNS IT OFF when completed.

BTW, I have seen no evidence that this is working 100% and is being
done. All
the stories I have seen say "this is coming, maybe...".

The news stories in March 2024 said Apple planned to have it in all US stores in April 2024. Whether that plan actually happened or not hasn't
been reported.> >

So again, this is only possible when Apple has physical access to the
phones.
 It CAN'T be done while your phone is off, in your house. Nor can it
be done
"sitting on retailer shelves".

It would be relatively easy to put this functionality into a wireless charging pad (adimitedly perhaps larger than normal). So even though
your phone is supposedly "off" it can still install updates.

But not doable at all reliably for devices that don't support wireless charging...

...because you couldn't depend on the state of the charge of the battery
to get through any update successfully; much less potential multiple
updates.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-17 00:46, Your Name wrote:

Your Name is wrong.  The phone IS shut off.  Apple is using NFC to send a >> signal to the phones

Yes, so the phone is on in some form to listen for that signal. As I
said, "low powered or not, they are not *COMPLETELY* off. If they were *COMPLETELY* off they wouldn't be able to respond to *ANY* signals at all.

All phones are listening for a push on the "ON" button. They are not completely off. So do all TV sets, all computers... even my washing
machine. Nobody is using mechanical power on/off buttons anymore.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-16 23:29:48 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:

On 2025-07-17 00:46, Your Name wrote:

Your Name is wrong.� The phone IS shut off.� Apple is using NFC to send a >>> signal to the phones

Yes, so the phone is on in some form to listen for that signal. As I
said, "low powered or not, they are not *COMPLETELY* off. If they were
*COMPLETELY* off they wouldn't be able to respond to *ANY* signals at
all.

All phones are listening for a push on the "ON" button. They are not completely off. So do all TV sets, all computers... even my washing
machine. Nobody is using mechanical power on/off buttons anymore.

Some things do, some things don't, but you're right that the trend is
moving towards stupidly not having real on-off switches. :-(

We had to resort to plugging our TV and the set-top recorder box into
separate power sockets, so that the TV could actually be turned *OFF*
at the wall when not in use, while the recorder box could be left on to
record shows.

And then they wonder why many electricity companies have problems
supplying enough power. :-\


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-16 17:42, Your Name wrote:

On 2025-07-16 23:29:48 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:

On 2025-07-17 00:46, Your Name wrote:

Your Name is wrong.  The phone IS shut off.  Apple is using NFC to
send a
signal to the phones

Yes, so the phone is on in some form to listen for that signal. As I
said, "low powered or not, they are not *COMPLETELY* off. If they
were *COMPLETELY* off they wouldn't be able to respond to *ANY*
signals at all.

All phones are listening for a push on the "ON" button. They are not
completely off. So do all TV sets, all computers... even my washing
machine. Nobody is using mechanical power on/off buttons anymore.

Some things do, some things don't, but you're right that the trend is
moving towards stupidly not having real on-off switches.  :-(

And why is that stupid?

We had to resort to plugging our TV and the set-top recorder box into separate power sockets, so that the TV could actually be turned *OFF* at
the wall when not in use, while the recorder box could be left on to
record shows.

Again: why?

And then they wonder why many  electricity companies have problems supplying enough power.  :-\

Have you actually looked at what your TV draws when not turned on versus
how much electricity you use overall?

Somehow, I doubt it.

My smart TV draws less than 0.5W in standby mode.

That means less than:

12 watt-hours a day

I use roughly 7 KILOwatt-hours a day overall.

That's less than 2 tenths of one percent; 0.1714285714%

My daily usage costs me...

...$1; ONE dollar.

Turning off my TV completely would save me 0.17 cents a day if that's
all my TV did was standby for the entire day.

I was recently away from home and guess what: I didn't unplug my TV!

That choice cost me: 1.2¢; one and two tenths cents!
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On Wed, 16 Jul 2025 11:37:32 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :

On 2025-07-16 05:54, Marion wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jul 2025 02:09:07 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :

On 2025-07-15 21:47, D wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2025 17:04:48 +0000, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:

Message-Id: <20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org>

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new >>>>> now in tracking people. Some phones today (probably android and apple) >>>>> are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the >>>>> data on your phone. When you turn them back on, the phone then sends >>>>> the tracking data to a server. The only way to defeat this is to put >>>>> your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

This is ridiculous.

I care about privacy, but I don't understand "tags" nor "findmyphone"
tracking yet, mainly because I haven't ever thought about using them.

However, what little I do know is that the iPhone 11 and later, excluding
some SE models have a feature that allows them to be located even when
turned off or when the battery has run out. This is because they have an
Ultra Wideband chip and a "power reserve" feature for the Find My network. >>
This means that even if you turn off your iPhone 11 or newer, it can still >> act as a relay for an AirTag's location, and its own location can be seen
in the Find My app. Wikipedia says it's five hours after the battery dies. >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Find_My>

Read carefully the paragraph I quoted and you will see that the method
of Airtags is not what is described. The paragraph implies that the
phone on its own finds its own location (GPS?), stores it, and then
uplodads it when finally powered up. All that requires significant power.

Airtags use low power Bluetooth to request passersby to do the job of locating them and uploading that location to some central store. Thus
they work for a year or two on a button battery. Possibly could work on
the reserve power of a phone main battery.

It is not unthinkable for phones to have Airtag capability, but surely
this must be documented, in order to be useful to the owner, who wants
to find his own phone. To do that, he has to register the Airtag info somewhere and save that data somewhere else. And possibly the feature
can be disabled or be optional.

All this means that the quoted paragraph is ridiculous.

Android phones have their own "Find My Device" network for locating lost
Android devices but as far as know, they won't work if the phone is off.

All this can be wrong, but there is "some" truth to the fact that an iPhone >> that "appears" to have a dead battery, can still participate in finding it.

I'm OK with your assessment based on the facts. I was just letting folks
know, in case they didn't know, that some phones aren't really off when
they look like they're off (for tracking purposes like for "Find My").

I never really thought about it before so I don't know more than that.
I never cared enough to look up how Find My or tracking tags work.

I'm reading every post in this thread though, so that I learn from others.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-16 18:26, Marion wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jul 2025 11:37:32 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :

On 2025-07-16 05:54, Marion wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jul 2025 02:09:07 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :

On 2025-07-15 21:47, D wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2025 17:04:48 +0000, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:

Message-Id: <20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org>

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing something new >>>>>> now in tracking people. Some phones today (probably android and apple) >>>>>> are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and store the >>>>>> data on your phone. When you turn them back on, the phone then sends >>>>>> the tracking data to a server. The only way to defeat this is to put >>>>>> your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't work.

This is ridiculous.

I care about privacy, but I don't understand "tags" nor "findmyphone"
tracking yet, mainly because I haven't ever thought about using them.

However, what little I do know is that the iPhone 11 and later, excluding >>> some SE models have a feature that allows them to be located even when
turned off or when the battery has run out. This is because they have an >>> Ultra Wideband chip and a "power reserve" feature for the Find My network. >>>
This means that even if you turn off your iPhone 11 or newer, it can still >>> act as a relay for an AirTag's location, and its own location can be seen >>> in the Find My app. Wikipedia says it's five hours after the battery dies. >>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Find_My>

Read carefully the paragraph I quoted and you will see that the method
of Airtags is not what is described. The paragraph implies that the
phone on its own finds its own location (GPS?), stores it, and then
uplodads it when finally powered up. All that requires significant power.

Airtags use low power Bluetooth to request passersby to do the job of
locating them and uploading that location to some central store. Thus
they work for a year or two on a button battery. Possibly could work on
the reserve power of a phone main battery.

It is not unthinkable for phones to have Airtag capability, but surely
this must be documented, in order to be useful to the owner, who wants
to find his own phone. To do that, he has to register the Airtag info
somewhere and save that data somewhere else. And possibly the feature
can be disabled or be optional.

All this means that the quoted paragraph is ridiculous.

Android phones have their own "Find My Device" network for locating lost >>> Android devices but as far as know, they won't work if the phone is off. >>>
All this can be wrong, but there is "some" truth to the fact that an iPhone >>> that "appears" to have a dead battery, can still participate in finding it.

I'm OK with your assessment based on the facts. I was just letting folks know, in case they didn't know, that some phones aren't really off when
they look like they're off (for tracking purposes like for "Find My").

I never really thought about it before so I don't know more than that.
I never cared enough to look up how Find My or tracking tags work.

I'm reading every post in this thread though, so that I learn from others.

The evidence is that you do not learn.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-17 03:11, Alan wrote:

On 2025-07-16 17:42, Your Name wrote:

On 2025-07-16 23:29:48 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:

On 2025-07-17 00:46, Your Name wrote:

Your Name is wrong.  The phone IS shut off.  Apple is using NFC to >>>>> send a
signal to the phones

Yes, so the phone is on in some form to listen for that signal. As I
said, "low powered or not, they are not *COMPLETELY* off. If they
were *COMPLETELY* off they wouldn't be able to respond to *ANY*
signals at all.

All phones are listening for a push on the "ON" button. They are not
completely off. So do all TV sets, all computers... even my washing
machine. Nobody is using mechanical power on/off buttons anymore.

Some things do, some things don't, but you're right that the trend is
moving towards stupidly not having real on-off switches.  :-(

And why is that stupid?

I was going to ask the same.

We had to resort to plugging our TV and the set-top recorder box into
separate power sockets, so that the TV could actually be turned *OFF*
at the wall when not in use, while the recorder box could be left on
to record shows.

Again: why?

And then they wonder why many  electricity companies have problems
supplying enough power.  :-\

Have you actually looked at what your TV draws when not turned on versus
how much electricity you use overall?

Somehow, I doubt it.

My smart TV draws less than 0.5W in standby mode.

That means less than:

12 watt-hours a day

I use roughly 7 KILOwatt-hours a day overall.

That's less than 2 tenths of one percent; 0.1714285714%

My daily usage costs me...

...$1; ONE dollar.

Turning off my TV completely would save me 0.17 cents a day if that's
all my TV did was standby for the entire day.

I was recently away from home and guess what: I didn't unplug my TV!

That choice cost me: 1.2¢; one and two tenths cents!

It has an aggregate cost, but installing an actual power switch also has
a cost. And those switches, if cheap, suffer wear, they break, and have
to be replaced: another cost.

In the case of phones, an actual power switch in such small hardware has
a significant cost (they are big; size has a price; etc).
--
Cheers, Carlos.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 16 Jul 2025, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> posted some news:uielklxhe2.ln2@Telcontar.valinor:

On 2025-07-16 21:36, Alan wrote:

On 2025-07-16 11:57, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-07-16 14:43, Tyrone wrote:

On Jul 16, 2025 at 1:07:11 AM EDT, "Your Name"
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

On 2025-07-15 23:24:06 +0000, Nomen Nescio said:

On 15 Jul 2025, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> posted some
news:20250715.170448.c5f8b4a9@yamn.paranoici.org:

I just heard an engineer describing how phones are doing
something new
now in tracking people.  Some phones today (probably android
and apple)
are continuing to track you after you turn the phone off and
store the
data on your phone.  When you turn them back on, the phone then >>>>>>> sends the tracking data to a server.  The only way to defeat
this is to put your phone into a faraday bag, most that don't
work.

I sense an opportunity for money here.

All the cell phone providers are selling your financial data to
third parties.  It's time for a class action lawsuit.

Phones and tablets haven't had an actual OFF button for a long
time. Even simply removing the battery is becoming a rare ability
these days.

The off button on iPhones and iPads does just that.   The phone
IS off

Apple has been able to do software updates on new phones sitting
sealed on retailer shelves for little while,

Which requires a special "rack" to put the boxes in, which FIRST
TURNS THE
PHONE ON, then updates it, then TURNS IT OFF AGAIN.  Not "sitting
on retailer
shelves".

Wireless charging, perhaps?

Running updates on a device with an unknown battery state can not be
very reliable. You might discharge the battery completely in the
middle of the update and brick the device before selling it. And no
battery at all when the new owner tries.

It's almost like Apple knows what they're doing.

:-)

But I am curious as to how.

The BMC is a part of the overall baseband system that manages and controls
the BP and RF components. It handles power management, clocking, and other housekeeping tasks.

In essence, the BMC is not a single chip, but rather a functional part of
the iPhone's baseband system responsible for managing the cellular modem's various components and ensuring proper communication with the cellular network.

Put it near the right source, you can turn the phone on and shut it down.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-17 11:08:30 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:

On 2025-07-17 03:11, Alan wrote:

On 2025-07-16 17:42, Your Name wrote:

On 2025-07-16 23:29:48 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:

On 2025-07-17 00:46, Your Name wrote:

Your Name is wrong.  The phone IS shut off.  Apple is using NFC to send a
signal to the phones

Yes, so the phone is on in some form to listen for that signal. As I >>>>> said, "low powered or not, they are not *COMPLETELY* off. If they were >>>>> *COMPLETELY* off they wouldn't be able to respond to *ANY* signals at >>>>> all.

All phones are listening for a push on the "ON" button. They are not
completely off. So do all TV sets, all computers... even my washing
machine. Nobody is using mechanical power on/off buttons anymore.

Some things do, some things don't, but you're right that the trend is
moving towards stupidly not having real on-off switches.� :-(

And why is that stupid?

I was going to ask the same.

Because things should be able to be turned *OFF*, despite the
impatience of the lazy generation who can't be bothered to wait a few
seconds for a device to turn on.

We had to resort to plugging our TV and the set-top recorder box into
separate power sockets, so that the TV could actually be turned *OFF*
at the wall when not in use, while the recorder box could be left on to >>> record shows.

Again: why?

Even fire departments will tell you to NOT leave devices on standby,
portable devices charging, etc.

The simple rule is: if you're not using it, turn it off.

And then they wonder why many�electricity companies have problems
supplying enough power.� :-\

Have you actually looked at what your TV draws when not turned on
versus how much electricity you use overall?

Somehow, I doubt it.

My smart TV draws less than 0.5W in standby mode.

That means less than:

12 watt-hours a day

I use roughly 7 KILOwatt-hours a day overall.

That's less than 2 tenths of one percent; 0.1714285714%

My daily usage costs me...

...$1; ONE dollar.

Turning off my TV completely would save me 0.17 cents a day if that's
all my TV did was standby for the entire day.

I was recently away from home and guess what: I didn't unplug my TV!

That choice cost me: 1.2�; one and two tenths cents!

It has an aggregate cost, but installing an actual power switch also
has a cost. And those switches, if cheap, suffer wear, they break, and
have to be replaced: another cost.

In the case of phones, an actual power switch in such small hardware
has a significant cost (they are big; size has a price; etc).

So, instead of paying a few cents for a new switch occasionally*, you'd
rather be paying hundreds of dollars every year in taxes and/or power
bills so that electricity companies can build new generating capacity
to try to keep up with the billions of devices that have to be left on
(even in low-power mode) or keep needing to be recharged.


* We've been in this house for over 20 years since it was brand new, and
have not yet had to replace a wall power switch or light switch.
I don't recall having any device ever needing to be repaired or binned
because of a broken power switch.



--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 17.07.25 23:54, Your Name wrote:

Even fire departments will tell you to NOT leave devices on standby,
portable devices charging, etc.

The simple rule is: if you're not using it, turn it off.

This is disproportional nonsense. "Not using" does not exist with mobile devices. From a fire hazard perspective the worst a user can do is to
put a turned off and fully charged device in a drawer.

So, instead of paying a few cents for a new switch occasionally*, you'd rather be paying hundreds of dollars every year in taxes and/or power
bills so that electricity companies can build new generating capacity
to try to keep up with the billions of devices that have to be left on
(even in low-power mode) or keep needing to be recharged.

Troll.
--
"Ave! Morituri te salutant!"
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-17 23:54, Your Name wrote:

On 2025-07-17 11:08:30 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:

On 2025-07-17 03:11, Alan wrote:

On 2025-07-16 17:42, Your Name wrote:

On 2025-07-16 23:29:48 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:

On 2025-07-17 00:46, Your Name wrote:

...

It has an aggregate cost, but installing an actual power switch also
has a cost. And those switches, if cheap, suffer wear, they break, and
have to be replaced: another cost.

In the case of phones, an actual power switch in such small hardware
has a significant cost (they are big; size has a price; etc).

So, instead of paying a few cents for a new switch occasionally*, you'd rather be paying hundreds of dollars every year in taxes and/or power
bills so that electricity companies can build new generating capacity to
try to keep up with the billions of devices that have to be left on
(even in low-power mode) or keep needing to be recharged.

* We've been in this house for over 20 years since it was brand new, and
 have not yet had to replace a wall power switch or light switch.
 I don't recall having any device ever needing to be repaired or binned
 because of a broken power switch.

Those switches do not cost a few cents, but are rather in the dollar
range. Vs a few cents/year for a well designed standby.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 2025-07-17 14:54, Your Name wrote:

On 2025-07-17 11:08:30 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:

On 2025-07-17 03:11, Alan wrote:

On 2025-07-16 17:42, Your Name wrote:

On 2025-07-16 23:29:48 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:

On 2025-07-17 00:46, Your Name wrote:

Your Name is wrong.  The phone IS shut off.  Apple is using NFC >>>>>>> to send a
signal to the phones

Yes, so the phone is on in some form to listen for that signal. As >>>>>> I said, "low powered or not, they are not *COMPLETELY* off. If
they were *COMPLETELY* off they wouldn't be able to respond to
*ANY* signals at all.

All phones are listening for a push on the "ON" button. They are
not completely off. So do all TV sets, all computers... even my
washing machine. Nobody is using mechanical power on/off buttons
anymore.

Some things do, some things don't, but you're right that the trend
is moving towards stupidly not having real on-off switches.  :-(

And why is that stupid?

I was going to ask the same.

Because things should be able to be turned *OFF*, despite the impatience
of the lazy generation who can't be bothered to wait a few seconds for a device to turn on.

That's not an actual reason.

We had to resort to plugging our TV and the set-top recorder box
into separate power sockets, so that the TV could actually be turned
*OFF* at the wall when not in use, while the recorder box could be
left on to record shows.

Again: why?

Even fire departments will tell you to NOT leave devices on standby, portable devices charging, etc.

The simple rule is: if you're not using it, turn it off.

Show me a fire department that says that.

And then they wonder why many electricity companies have problems
supplying enough power.  :-\

Have you actually looked at what your TV draws when not turned on
versus how much electricity you use overall?

Somehow, I doubt it.

My smart TV draws less than 0.5W in standby mode.

That means less than:

12 watt-hours a day

I use roughly 7 KILOwatt-hours a day overall.

That's less than 2 tenths of one percent; 0.1714285714%

My daily usage costs me...

...$1; ONE dollar.

Turning off my TV completely would save me 0.17 cents a day if that's
all my TV did was standby for the entire day.

I was recently away from home and guess what: I didn't unplug my TV!

That choice cost me: 1.2¢; one and two tenths cents!

It has an aggregate cost, but installing an actual power switch also
has a cost. And those switches, if cheap, suffer wear, they break, and
have to be replaced: another cost.

In the case of phones, an actual power switch in such small hardware
has a significant cost (they are big; size has a price; etc).

So, instead of paying a few cents for a new switch occasionally*, you'd rather be paying hundreds of dollars every year in taxes and/or power
bills so that electricity companies can build new generating capacity to
try to keep up with the billions of devices that have to be left on
(even in low-power mode) or keep needing to be recharged.

Did you read the figure?

If my TV was on standby for the entire year, it would cost me...

SIXTY-TWO CENTS!
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

On 18 Jul 2025, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> posted some news:bibpklxu3l.ln2@Telcontar.valinor:

On 2025-07-17 23:54, Your Name wrote:

On 2025-07-17 11:08:30 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:

On 2025-07-17 03:11, Alan wrote:

On 2025-07-16 17:42, Your Name wrote:

On 2025-07-16 23:29:48 +0000, Carlos E.R. said:

On 2025-07-17 00:46, Your Name wrote:

...

It has an aggregate cost, but installing an actual power switch also
has a cost. And those switches, if cheap, suffer wear, they break,
and have to be replaced: another cost.

In the case of phones, an actual power switch in such small hardware
has a significant cost (they are big; size has a price; etc).

So, instead of paying a few cents for a new switch occasionally*,
you'd rather be paying hundreds of dollars every year in taxes and/or
power bills so that electricity companies can build new generating
capacity to try to keep up with the billions of devices that have to
be left on (even in low-power mode) or keep needing to be recharged.


* We've been in this house for over 20 years since it was brand new,
and
 have not yet had to replace a wall power switch or light switch.
 I don't recall having any device ever needing to be repaired or
binned  because of a broken power switch.

Those switches do not cost a few cents, but are rather in the dollar
range. Vs a few cents/year for a well designed standby.

My UPS made a cheap wall receptacle break.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2