• It's the End of an Era for Steam and Valve

    From Dimensional Traveler@dtravel@sonic.net to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Wed Aug 13 17:35:34 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/it-s-the-end-of-an-era-for-steam-and-valve/ar-AA1KrN6O?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=689d0b78ae9f477a8f2db8de3e2ccbfe&ei=20

    Over the last couple of weeks, gamers have been in an uproar over credit
    card companies like Visa and MasterCard pressuring platforms to remove
    or delist video games with “mature content.” Many have argued that the claims that this is only about illegal or inappropriate material are
    actually a cover for targeting queer games or titles with adult themes.

    Steam is one of the platforms that gave in to the pressure, removing
    various games at the request of Visa and MasterCard. Created by Valve,
    Steam is the most widely used site for downloading games on Mac and PC. However, the fact that it can be pushed to remove content at the request
    of lobbyist groups suggests that the platform is an unsafe space for developers.

    Payment Processors Are Pressuring Storefronts Like Steam

    In mid-July, Steam began removing games, claiming the action was at the request of its payment processors, targeting hentai titles in
    particular. While Steam and other storefronts do have an issue with shovelware, this isn’t the solution. Many gamers have already pointed
    out that banning “adult content” without clear definitions is often used as a cudgel to block games that tackle serious subjects or queer themes.

    Collective Shout, the advocacy group that claimed victory for getting
    these games pulled from Steam, has also set its sights on Grand Theft
    Auto and Detroit: Become Human, showing they’re not afraid to target
    more mainstream titles as well. The bigger problem is that there’s no practical way to apply these standards consistently. It’s hard to draw
    the line between a game about overcoming trauma from abuse and one that
    shows abuse just for audience gratification.

    To implement this, Steam would need strict and specific guidelines,
    which would inevitably affect popular releases like the upcoming Game of Thrones game or Baldur’s Gate 3. The easiest solution is for parents and users to rely on the existing tags and filters to curate an experience,
    rather than expecting the storefront to remove those games entirely.
    Valve And Payment Processors Are At Odds

    Valve has stated they are following requests from payment processors,
    but Mastercard claims it did not single out any games and allows “all
    lawful transactions.” Valve, however, maintains that Mastercard, through intermediaries such as payment processors, cited a Mastercard rule about
    brand damage to push changes to Steam’s policy.

    The rule in question states: “A Merchant must not submit to its
    Acquirer, and a Customer must not submit to the Interchange System, any Transaction that is illegal, or in the sole discretion of the
    Corporation, may damage the goodwill of the Corporation or reflect
    negatively on the Marks.”

    In short, Mastercard doesn’t want merchants selling anything that could
    harm the company’s brand. This gives Mastercard a lot of influence over
    what can be sold on Steam, with the clause letting it decide what’s unacceptable.

    The policy prohibits the sale of material that is “patently offensive
    and lacks serious artistic value (such as, by way of example and not limitation, images of nonconsensual sexual behavior, sexual exploitation
    of a minor, nonconsensual mutilation of a person or body part, and bestiality), or any other material that the Corporation deems
    unacceptable to sell in connection with a Mark.”

    At the bare minimum, games like Mortal Kombat and Dead Space feature the “nonconsensual mutilation of a person or a body part.” Banning images of nonconsensual sexual behavior will also apply to games about abuse
    survivors that explore their trauma, and the rule includes a loophole
    allowing Mastercard to add whatever it sees fit. This approach isn’t sustainable for game developers.
    Developers Don't Know What to Expect from Steam Going Forward

    Not only do developers of adult games who properly label and warn about
    their content have to contend with the risk of being delisted. Not only
    does this stop certain topics from even being discussed constructively
    in games. Not only does this push developers toward compromising their creative vision.

    It also puts them at risk of being targeted by a hate campaign that
    could get a game pulled entirely. Given the vagueness of the rules,
    malicious actors could bypass review bombing and instead advocate for a
    game's deplatforming altogether. It’s all too common to see claims that
    any depiction of queer or trans relationships counts as “adult content,” no matter how sanitized it is.

    On top of that, it's possible to twist almost any game into seeming
    harmful. Anyone who’s played Overcooked! would roll their eyes at the
    idea it promotes violence, unsafe cooking conditions, or encourages kids
    to play with fire hazards. But if Mastercard, Visa, and PayPal get
    bombarded with complaints that it’s inappropriate for children, will
    they know it’s in bad faith?

    Mastercard doesn’t care enough to hire people to play every game that
    gets a complaint to see if the claims are accurate. Steam might, but
    that’s not helpful if the response is simply to capitulate. Removing
    games is already bad on its own, but there’s a larger threat in creators deciding to make their games sanitized and advertiser-friendly just to
    avoid potential problems in the long run.

    Gamers online have mobilized into an ongoing movement to pressure
    payment processors to reverse their decision, flooding call centers in
    the hopes of changing their minds. Reports even claim that Mastercard
    asked Riot Games to block discussion of the situation during live
    tournaments.

    Ultimately, getting payment processors to back down might not undo the
    damage done to Steam’s reputation. While Itch.io has said they’re
    looking for alternate payment processors and has started reindexing some games, Steam hasn’t taken similar steps, instead insisting their hands
    are tied.

    Many developers have been left feeling like Valve is willing to throw
    them under the bus. Without a clear commitment that Steam will stand by creators, there’s constant worry that the same situation could happen
    again or that another wave of bad-faith attacks could target their work.
    This will likely push some developers to leave Steam altogether and
    could even slow the release of major console titles like GTA VI on the platform.
    Steam Isn't the Only Option for Developers

    When advertisers purged queer fan content from websites like
    LiveJournal, the result was the creation of the fanfiction archive
    Archive of Our Own, or AO3. AO3 is a nonprofit dedicated to archiving
    fanworks and is firm in not banning specific types of content, which
    might be the path many smaller indie creators take to avoid censorship
    on Steam.

    Itch.io’s announcement that it’s looking for other payment processors means developers of queer and adult games may prefer to move there, or
    use it to promote their work while adding a tip jar on sites like
    Patreon and Ko-fi. A new storefront, whether Itch.io or another
    platform, could become a safe haven for these developers and pull
    attention away from Steam as indie-friendly competition.

    Currently, Itch.io is well-known for hosting numerous game jams and
    offering a diverse range of smaller games. If more major indie titles
    start releasing exclusively on Itch.io due to its safety, the platform
    could gain a larger market share. It’s also possible developers will
    avoid centralized distribution platforms altogether, choosing instead to advertise through social media or focus on console releases.

    If Valve wants to prevent that shift, the best move is to take an
    affirmative anti-censorship stance and be transparent with creators
    concerned about their livelihood. Many Steam users are already playing
    older games in their backlogs, and if Steam makes it harder to play new
    titles like GTA VI, some gamers might decide to move on from the platform.
    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

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  • From rms@rsquiresMOO@MOOflashMOO.net to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Thu Aug 14 07:27:03 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/it-s-the-end-of-an-era-for-steam-and-valve/ar-AA1KrN6O

    Backdoor censorship, nasty.

    rms

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@spallshurgenson@gmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Thu Aug 14 11:30:21 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Thu, 14 Aug 2025 07:27:03 -0600, "rms"
    <rsquiresMOO@MOOflashMOO.net> wrote:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/it-s-the-end-of-an-era-for-steam-and-valve/ar-AA1KrN6O

    Backdoor censorship, nasty.

    I'd be less worried about these tactics actually having a lasting
    effect if it wasn't for the insanity going on in USAmerica (and
    spreading to the UK, with their recent "Child Safeguarding"
    legislation). It used to be we'd see shit like this happen, then
    quickly get rolled back as sensible people took a look at the
    ramifactions and said, "Wait, wait... this is BAD for democracy and
    people's choices." But those things no longer seem to be important to
    a huge swathe of people anymore. Now they're forcing their backward
    beliefs onto everyone else, and have the government authority to make
    it stick. That its contrary to an open society and bad for business no
    longer matters.

    What do they always say, we live in the stupidest timeline?




    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Zaghadka@zaghadka@hotmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Thu Aug 14 12:54:32 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Thu, 14 Aug 2025 11:30:21 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    What do they always say, we live in the stupidest timeline?

    But hell, what if they're wrong? Can you imagine what's happening in the actually stupidest timeline?

    I see a rush to Bitcoin transactions coming in 3... 2... 1.
    --
    Pope Zaghadka III

    ````````````````````````````````````````````````````|
    Every man, woman, and child on this Earth |
    is a genuine and authorized Pope. | `````````````````````````````````````````````````````

    As Pope, you are entitled to the following privleges:

    1. To invoke infallibility at any time, even
    retroactively.

    2. To completely rework the structure of the Erisian
    church.

    3. To baptise, bury, and marry (with the permission
    of the deceased in the latter two cases)

    4. To excommunicate yourself and others,
    To de-excommunicate yourself and others,
    To re-excommunicate yourself and others,
    To de-re-excommunicate (no backsies) yourself and
    others.

    5. To perform all rites and functions deemed to be
    improper to a Pope of Discordia.

    Hail Eris!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Zaghadka@zaghadka@hotmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Thu Aug 14 13:05:44 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Thu, 14 Aug 2025 07:27:03 -0600, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, rms
    wrote:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/it-s-the-end-of-an-era-for-steam-and-valve/ar-AA1KrN6O

    Backdoor censorship, nasty.

    I'm doing a playthrough of Trigger Happy Havoc: Danganronpa with my 23-yo daughter right now. The DR series was a part of her teen years and we're
    having fun with the nostalgia. I'm the player this time. We started with
    V3, and she was the player.

    Those games are on the chopping block I bet. That and Ultra Despair
    Girls, for which she gave me a trigger warning it's so bad.

    The first game (all of them really) is basically designed for 14-yo boys.
    It deals with trans, suicide, murder, nihilism, implied yaoi and yari,
    etc.

    V3 literally has a character that hints she's into watersports, as a
    joke. The character she fancies constantly talks about having to go to
    the bathroom. Let's not even get started on Miu. (You can look her up.)

    14-yo boys will weep at the results of this. Now I know why GOG featured
    all those softporn games in a freebie recently, at least.
    --
    Pope Zaghadka III

    ````````````````````````````````````````````````````|
    Every man, woman, and child on this Earth |
    is a genuine and authorized Pope. | `````````````````````````````````````````````````````

    As Pope, you are entitled to the following privleges:

    1. To invoke infallibility at any time, even
    retroactively.

    2. To completely rework the structure of the Erisian
    church.

    3. To baptise, bury, and marry (with the permission
    of the deceased in the latter two cases)

    4. To excommunicate yourself and others,
    To de-excommunicate yourself and others,
    To re-excommunicate yourself and others,
    To de-re-excommunicate (no backsies) yourself and
    others.

    5. To perform all rites and functions deemed to be
    improper to a Pope of Discordia.

    Hail Eris!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@spallshurgenson@gmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Thu Aug 14 16:48:09 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Thu, 14 Aug 2025 13:05:44 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 14 Aug 2025 07:27:03 -0600, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, rms >wrote:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/it-s-the-end-of-an-era-for-steam-and-valve/ar-AA1KrN6O

    Backdoor censorship, nasty.

    Now I know why GOG featured
    all those softporn games in a freebie recently, at least.

    That was their stated goal, after all. It was a direct reaction to
    Steam and Itch.io de-listing prurient games, and GOG saying, no, we
    won't do that. (Whether they will actually stand up for those ideals
    when Mastercard et al. come knocking is another thing entire).

    Of course, this is a problem Mastercard has foisted upon themselves.
    If they'd just been satisfied to handle payments blindly, they
    wouldn't be able to say, "We're denying sales for this or that
    product", because they would never know what was being purchased. But
    they saw all that data flowing through their computers and said, "Hey,
    we can make money analyzing and re-selling people's buying habits",
    and thus opened themselves up to pressure to limit certain types of
    purchases. The sort of pressure that religious groups have spent
    millenia building up.

    Oh for a day when payment processors just processed payments.

    I wonder if Valve will create a type of virtual currency that can be
    used to purchase games. Buy the currency to buy the games Mastercart
    etc. object to. Then the payment processors can honestly say to the
    nutcases, "our systems aren't being used to buy these games". If Valve
    were particularly clever, they'd make the purchase of the virtual
    currency simultaneous (and invisible) to the person buying the game
    (e.g., click "buy TransBunniesLuvFest", it automatically purchases the
    exact amount of Steambucks from Mastercard, then directly applies
    those the game purchase). Sure, it's a flimsy cover but it's exactly
    the same sort of thing video game publishers use to 'hide' in-game
    gambling mechanics.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xocyll@Xocyll@gmx.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Fri Aug 15 08:04:15 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
    say:

    <snip>
    I wonder if Valve will create a type of virtual currency that can be
    used to purchase games.

    Steam cards to add currency to the steam wallet games (and in-game
    currencies and other mtx type stuff) are purchased with, no credit card necessary.

    Plus you can buy em with cash, and the credit card companies know
    nothing.


    Frankly I don't see this having much effect on anyone but the small
    companies peddling soft porn games to people apparently too stupid to be
    able to find real porn on the internet.


    As for the Doom and Gloom and Sky Falling predictions, I bet they said
    the same kind of things when they cleaned up Times Square, and yet
    magically NYC survived just fine without the peep shows, Hookers and
    other sex purveyors infesting the region.

    To quote Shakespeare, Much Ado about Nothing.

    I'll sign off with some Tom Lehrer... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaHDBL7dVgshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaHDBL7dVgs

    Xocyll
    --
    I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
    a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
    Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
    FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark P. Nelson@markpnelson@sbcglobal.net to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Sat Aug 16 02:34:23 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote in news:pt7u9ktgum7b0b09d57eu1avp0gdqovask@ 4ax.com:

    Frankly I don't see this having much effect on anyone but the small
    companies peddling soft porn games to people apparently too stupid to be
    able to find real porn on the internet.

    You've not been following the rulings of the courts over the last century-and-a-half; if it's
    photography, it's pornography, but if it's painting, it's*ART*. ;>)
    --
    Clotho, Lachesis, Atropos -- the only sysadmins that matter
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xocyll@Xocyll@gmx.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Sun Aug 17 07:47:01 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    "Mark P. Nelson" <markpnelson@sbcglobal.net> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
    say:

    Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote in news:pt7u9ktgum7b0b09d57eu1avp0gdqovask@ >4ax.com:

    Frankly I don't see this having much effect on anyone but the small
    companies peddling soft porn games to people apparently too stupid to be
    able to find real porn on the internet.

    You've not been following the rulings of the courts over the last century-and-a-half; if it's
    photography, it's pornography, but if it's painting, it's*ART*. ;>)

    AH but CGI falls into neither of those categories.

    Even on the "art" front, with the so called AI tools available now, was
    the "art" even created by a person?

    Xocyll
    --
    I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
    a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
    Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
    FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Zaghadka@zaghadka@hotmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Mon Aug 18 13:00:30 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 07:47:01 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    Xocyll wrote:

    "Mark P. Nelson" <markpnelson@sbcglobal.net> looked up from reading the >entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
    say:

    Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote in news:pt7u9ktgum7b0b09d57eu1avp0gdqovask@ >>4ax.com:

    Frankly I don't see this having much effect on anyone but the small
    companies peddling soft porn games to people apparently too stupid to be >>> able to find real porn on the internet.

    You've not been following the rulings of the courts over the last century-and-a-half; if it's
    photography, it's pornography, but if it's painting, it's*ART*. ;>)

    AH but CGI falls into neither of those categories.

    Even on the "art" front, with the so called AI tools available now, was
    the "art" even created by a person?

    If it involves computers: "Think of the children."

    It falls into /that/ category.
    --
    Zag

    Give me the liberty to know, to think, to believe,
    and to utter freely according to conscience, above
    all other liberties. ~John Milton
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xocyll@Xocyll@gmx.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Wed Aug 20 08:36:15 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
    the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

    On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 07:47:01 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    Xocyll wrote:

    "Mark P. Nelson" <markpnelson@sbcglobal.net> looked up from reading the >>entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
    say:

    Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote in news:pt7u9ktgum7b0b09d57eu1avp0gdqovask@ >>>4ax.com:

    Frankly I don't see this having much effect on anyone but the small
    companies peddling soft porn games to people apparently too stupid to be >>>> able to find real porn on the internet.

    You've not been following the rulings of the courts over the last century-and-a-half; if it's
    photography, it's pornography, but if it's painting, it's*ART*. ;>)

    AH but CGI falls into neither of those categories.

    Even on the "art" front, with the so called AI tools available now, was
    the "art" even created by a person?

    If it involves computers: "Think of the children."

    It falls into /that/ category.

    I thought they had laws about pornography and "Thinking of the
    Children." :)

    Xocyll
    --
    I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
    a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
    Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
    FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2