From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action


You probably don't remember 3DO. It was an early 32-bit console,
predating the first Playstation. It had a few hit titles but overall
was a flop in the marketplace. Not so much because of the
capabilities, but because of its price.

See, the 3DO was different from Genesis or Nintendo or Playstation. It
wasn't designed and manufactured by one company. Rather, its design
was licensed out to different OEMs, like Panasonic or Goldstar. The
idea was to make game consoles like VHS machines. You didn't care who
made your VHS; any tape would work in it. Similarly, the manufacturer
of your console (3DO postulated) shouldn't matter either; just buy the
machine that best suited your budget and any 3DO game would work.

While potentially this could have resulted in cheaper machines for
end-users, because there was a lack of real competition, (and because
the OEMs didn't collect royalty fees on games sold) the 3DO consoles
retailed at exorbitant prices. In today's dollars, the release price
of the 3DO was $1500 (in comparison, the PS1, released a year later,
sold at a 2025-equivalent price of $650). So, yeah, the 3DO didn't
sell well.


But would that model work today? Maybe. In 1994, there were distinct differences between the different platforms; they all used different
hardware architectures and focused on different types of game. For
example, the NeoGeo was a sprites-powerhouse, but had virtually no
support for anything 3D. This meant games for the various platforms
differed wildly. The PC, with its copious memory and storage, tended
towards much more open games that gave players many more options than,
say, on Genesis. The 3DO, built around the hot new CD-ROM technology,
featured a lot of streaming-video rail games.

These days, though, the architectures of the Playstation, XBox and PC
are increasingly similar. Exclusives to one platform or the other have
less to do with the capability of the platform than a marketing-forced differentiation. The era of "sell the hardware at a loss to make it up
through game-licensing fees" is also largely over too. The PS5 sells
for $699 today because that's what it costs Sony to build it.
Meanwhile, the software publishers have become an increasingly
dominant voice in the market; their needs -and not the hardware
manufacturers' goals-- are increasingly the most heeded. And what the
software publishers want most of all is write-once/run-everywhere, and
not have to worry about the complexities and risk of porting to
multiple platforms.

So is it possible that a business model like 3DO could work today? A
licensed platform, built by different manufacturers, with enough
competition to drive down costs? In way, of course, we already have
that; it's called the PC. But the PC isn't designed with games first
and foremost. Still, it is branching out, and handheld PC gaming
machines (SteamDeck and the like) indicate that this might be the
direction gaming is going. It's quite possible in a generation or two,
we'll see a consolidation of architectures --PC, Playstation and
XBox-- where games from one platform play easily on the next, and the
only real distinction is the associated services and form factor.

Which was pretty much the 3DO dream back in 1994.




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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

Am 16.08.25 um 17:00 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:

So is it possible that a business model like 3DO could work today? A
licensed platform, built by different manufacturers, with enough
competition to drive down costs?

Valved tried a few years ago with the steam machines and to some degree nowadays with SteamOS!
The success to get OEMs on board has been limited and were in both cases!

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 19:40:56 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

Am 16.08.25 um 17:00 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:

So is it possible that a business model like 3DO could work today? A
licensed platform, built by different manufacturers, with enough
competition to drive down costs?

Valved tried a few years ago with the steam machines and to some degree >nowadays with SteamOS!
The success to get OEMs on board has been limited and were in both cases!

I don't know if a standardized platform would work or not. In truth, I
was inspired to write the initial post by an editorial I read that
briefly touched on the subject. But I think it's more possible NOW
than it was even when the Steam Machines came out.

There's been an increasing conformity in platform architectures, and
--with the usual exception of Nintendo-- it's more often the software publishers pushing the direction of console design than the
manufacturers. They would LOVE a unified system architecture, and
nowadays they have more clout than ever. And with an increasing push
towards software-as-service/cloud streaming, having a standardized
hardware platform is useful too.

But, like you said, it's the OEMs who have to get behind it. That was
one thing the 3DO corporation never really managed to do. While Sony
and Microsoft no longer sell their console hardware at loss, their
gaming division profits come mostly from licensing. Wanna publish a
game on Playstation 5? Sony's getting a cut... and while it's not a
huge cut, it adds up.

But if you standardize consoles for OEMs to manufacture, like VHS,
those manufacturers aren't going to get any of those licensing fees.
The only profit they'll see is on the sale of the device itself. Which
leads to other problems, including customers getting cut-rate, poorly
designed hardware or overly expensive devices. Or just a failure to
attach any OEMs to the model at all, which is mostly what happened to
3DO (for the longest time, only Panasonic made 3DO machines at all. It
was only fairly late in the device's lifespan that competitors started
making competing 3DOs).

It's not impossible, of course. In a sense, the PC is the 'modern
3DO'; a standardized platform made by multiple manufactures. But it
would be a hard sell to get Microsoft, Sony and others to back the
idea.

Anyway, it was just a thought experiment, something to consider.

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On 8/17/2025 8:03 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 19:40:56 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

Am 16.08.25 um 17:00 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:

So is it possible that a business model like 3DO could work today? A
licensed platform, built by different manufacturers, with enough
competition to drive down costs?

Valved tried a few years ago with the steam machines and to some degree
nowadays with SteamOS!
The success to get OEMs on board has been limited and were in both cases!

I don't know if a standardized platform would work or not. In truth, I
was inspired to write the initial post by an editorial I read that
briefly touched on the subject. But I think it's more possible NOW
than it was even when the Steam Machines came out.

There's been an increasing conformity in platform architectures, and
--with the usual exception of Nintendo-- it's more often the software publishers pushing the direction of console design than the
manufacturers. They would LOVE a unified system architecture, and
nowadays they have more clout than ever. And with an increasing push
towards software-as-service/cloud streaming, having a standardized
hardware platform is useful too.

But, like you said, it's the OEMs who have to get behind it. That was
one thing the 3DO corporation never really managed to do. While Sony
and Microsoft no longer sell their console hardware at loss, their
gaming division profits come mostly from licensing. Wanna publish a
game on Playstation 5? Sony's getting a cut... and while it's not a
huge cut, it adds up.

But if you standardize consoles for OEMs to manufacture, like VHS,
those manufacturers aren't going to get any of those licensing fees.
The only profit they'll see is on the sale of the device itself. Which
leads to other problems, including customers getting cut-rate, poorly designed hardware or overly expensive devices. Or just a failure to
attach any OEMs to the model at all, which is mostly what happened to
3DO (for the longest time, only Panasonic made 3DO machines at all. It
was only fairly late in the device's lifespan that competitors started
making competing 3DOs).

It's not impossible, of course. In a sense, the PC is the 'modern
3DO'; a standardized platform made by multiple manufactures. But it
would be a hard sell to get Microsoft, Sony and others to back the
idea.

Anyway, it was just a thought experiment, something to consider.

I don't agree that PCs are that standardized of a platform. Especially
for games. First you would need a stable standardized operating system,
which Windows isn't and almost certainly never will be. And Apple's OS
won't be either for the reasons you were complaining about in the
wireless headphones thread.

Second the hardware isn't anywhere close to as standardized as would be required. Different hard drives (size, speed) affect performance and capability. Video cards and their drivers are still one of the biggest sources of problems for users. Sound cards, same with smaller numbers.

And then we get to the software used....
--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

Am 17.08.25 um 18:01 schrieb Dimensional Traveler:

I don't agree that PCs are that standardized of a platform.  Especially
for games.  First you would need a stable standardized operating system, which Windows isn't and almost certainly never will be.  And Apple's OS won't be either for the reasons you were complaining about in the
wireless headphones thread.

Second the hardware isn't anywhere close to as standardized as would be required.  Different hard drives (size, speed) affect performance and capability.  Video cards and their drivers are still one of the biggest sources of problems for users.  Sound cards, same with smaller numbers.

And then we get to the software used....

I would thanks to improved tooling none of this really matters that much anymore as it used to when the 3do had its run!
Noadays most games use an existing engine which can scale decently from
low level requirements to high level ones!
Hence even porting to other platforms is not the headache as it used to be!

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On 8/18/2025 6:28 AM, Werner P. wrote:

Am 17.08.25 um 18:01 schrieb Dimensional Traveler:

I don't agree that PCs are that standardized of a platform.
Especially for games.  First you would need a stable standardized
operating system, which Windows isn't and almost certainly never will
be.  And Apple's OS won't be either for the reasons you were
complaining about in the wireless headphones thread.

Second the hardware isn't anywhere close to as standardized as would
be required.  Different hard drives (size, speed) affect performance
and capability.  Video cards and their drivers are still one of the
biggest sources of problems for users.  Sound cards, same with smaller
numbers.

And then we get to the software used....

I would thanks to improved tooling none of this really matters that much anymore as it used to when the 3do had its run!
Noadays most games use an existing engine which can scale decently from
low level requirements to high level ones!
Hence even porting to other platforms is not the headache as it used to be!

I agree it is better than it used to be but it isn't 100% "plug-n-play".
If nothing else there are too many threads in Steam game forums asking
for help with glitches and software that won't run because of bad driver
or similar problems and that's before you even start talking about the
bug in the games themselves that only manifest on some hardware.
--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote at 15:00 this Saturday (GMT):
[snip]

But would that model work today? Maybe. In 1994, there were distinct differences between the different platforms; they all used different
hardware architectures and focused on different types of game. For
example, the NeoGeo was a sprites-powerhouse, but had virtually no
support for anything 3D. This meant games for the various platforms
differed wildly. The PC, with its copious memory and storage, tended
towards much more open games that gave players many more options than,
say, on Genesis. The 3DO, built around the hot new CD-ROM technology, featured a lot of streaming-video rail games.

These days, though, the architectures of the Playstation, XBox and PC
are increasingly similar. Exclusives to one platform or the other have

[snip]


The Xbox actually uses a modified Windows install, and MS has been experimenting with running Xbox apps natively and having a shared
library between the two, so it absolutely is possible, except for the differences in processing power.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 23:50:08 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote at 15:00 this Saturday (GMT):
[snip]

But would that model work today? Maybe. In 1994, there were distinct
differences between the different platforms; they all used different
hardware architectures and focused on different types of game. For
example, the NeoGeo was a sprites-powerhouse, but had virtually no
support for anything 3D. This meant games for the various platforms
differed wildly. The PC, with its copious memory and storage, tended
towards much more open games that gave players many more options than,
say, on Genesis. The 3DO, built around the hot new CD-ROM technology,
featured a lot of streaming-video rail games.

These days, though, the architectures of the Playstation, XBox and PC
are increasingly similar. Exclusives to one platform or the other have >[snip]

The Xbox actually uses a modified Windows install, and MS has been >experimenting with running Xbox apps natively and having a shared
library between the two, so it absolutely is possible, except for the >differences in processing power.

MS and ASUS are also working on a new handheld gaming PC which will
use a stripped down version of Windows 11 (and a consolified
interface). It won't be the XBox version though; it will run regular
PC games natively.

AMD's Zen series is increasingly looking to be the basis of future
consoles too; its currently being used in the PS5 and XBox; it's the
core of the SteamDeck, and -of course- its used in many PCs too
(although Intel remains predominant in the latter). There is more and
more convergence in hardware design between the various platforms; a
far cry from ten or twenty years ago when every system had its own
unique architecture and different CPUs/GPUs. Personally I don't think
a "new 3DO" would take succeed... but it sure as heck would have a
better chance now than it did back in 1990.


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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On 8/20/2025 11:27 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 23:50:08 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote at 15:00 this Saturday (GMT):
[snip]

But would that model work today? Maybe. In 1994, there were distinct
differences between the different platforms; they all used different
hardware architectures and focused on different types of game. For
example, the NeoGeo was a sprites-powerhouse, but had virtually no
support for anything 3D. This meant games for the various platforms
differed wildly. The PC, with its copious memory and storage, tended
towards much more open games that gave players many more options than,
say, on Genesis. The 3DO, built around the hot new CD-ROM technology,
featured a lot of streaming-video rail games.

These days, though, the architectures of the Playstation, XBox and PC
are increasingly similar. Exclusives to one platform or the other have

[snip]


The Xbox actually uses a modified Windows install, and MS has been
experimenting with running Xbox apps natively and having a shared
library between the two, so it absolutely is possible, except for the
differences in processing power.

MS and ASUS are also working on a new handheld gaming PC which will
use a stripped down version of Windows 11 (and a consolified
interface). It won't be the XBox version though; it will run regular
PC games natively.

AMD's Zen series is increasingly looking to be the basis of future
consoles too; its currently being used in the PS5 and XBox; it's the
core of the SteamDeck, and -of course- its used in many PCs too
(although Intel remains predominant in the latter). There is more and
more convergence in hardware design between the various platforms; a
far cry from ten or twenty years ago when every system had its own
unique architecture and different CPUs/GPUs. Personally I don't think
a "new 3DO" would take succeed... but it sure as heck would have a
better chance now than it did back in 1990.

This also aligns with Microsoft's future policy on dropping physical
copies of games, ship everything like an App Store. It's also a good opportunity for Sony and Microsoft to capitalize on Nintendo's
challenges arising from the Switch 2 and the general negative
press/media I've received about it since launching. A unified hardware solution (tiered of course, someone always needs a 'moar powar' Series X
Mega Super Hyper Edition), either in a portable/dockable form, or the traditional box-on-a-shelf, with PC power but console characteristics
could be a strong competitor in the market.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 10:25:50 -0400, Aaron Dean
<newsgroups@f5theinternet.com> wrote:

This also aligns with Microsoft's future policy on dropping physical
copies of games, ship everything like an App Store. It's also a good >opportunity for Sony and Microsoft to capitalize on Nintendo's
challenges arising from the Switch 2 and the general negative
press/media I've received about it since launching. A unified hardware >solution (tiered of course, someone always needs a 'moar powar' Series X >Mega Super Hyper Edition), either in a portable/dockable form, or the >traditional box-on-a-shelf, with PC power but console characteristics
could be a strong competitor in the market.

Not just App-Store sales, but Microsoft is betting big on subscription
based games and streaming from the cloud. A unified architecture would
greatly help in this regard too. And it's not just Microsoft; players
like Amazon and Netflix would love a more standardized hardware model
so they could do the same thing too. The "VHS model" where people buy
a player from an OEM that can be used by any provider without worrying
about compatibility is very appealing to a lot of the big
corporations.

It helps that, at least at the moment, video game visuals have
plateaued... at least to some degree. Oh sure, there are tweaks and improvements, but games from ten or fifteen years ago are still
graphically impressive. (Compare this to the difference between games
in 1980 and in 1990, or games in 1990 and 2000). There's less need for
constant hardware churn, where every five years you need a new
console/PC just to keep up with the advancements. That's one of the
reasons (of many) that the 3DO failed back in 1992; it was very
quickly outclassed by newer consoles. There's less of a risk of that
happening now (especially if you use back-end servers to stream games
to the player).

I still don't think it's likely to happen --the biggest issue is,
what advantage does it bring the OEM manufacturers?-- but the
possibility of success is much greater today.


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