From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

The Edrawings viewer thing is fun, except for all the insane licensing nonsense.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3a9yf2njwiqckn45v2rvy/B_RF_2.jpg?rlkey=9tqkuebhakre46irxdqvdx89n&raw=1

This is two little RF boards in a Raspberry Pi based host box. My
mechanical designer guy is tweaking clearances and such.

We can ask him "what happens if we move that connector 40 mils?" and
it's no big deal to try.




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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Tue, 17 Jun 2025 11:01:10 -0700, john larkin wrote:

The Edrawings viewer thing is fun, except for all the insane licensing nonsense.

Why not try something without “all the insane licensing nonsense”.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gxLV4aD7bc>
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Tue, 17 Jun 2025 22:55:50 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 17 Jun 2025 11:01:10 -0700, john larkin wrote:

The Edrawings viewer thing is fun, except for all the insane licensing
nonsense.

Why not try something without �all the insane licensing nonsense�.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gxLV4aD7bc>

I don't want to do mechanical design myself. I have two guys who do
that, and they use Solidworks.

All I want is a viewer for various SolidWorks files and Step files and
DWGs and DXFs. Edrawings is pretty good but needs a painful
re-licensing ordeal roughly twice a week. For every computer you use
it on.

I'd rather not do CAD entry of schematics either. I have a drawing
table for schematics and guys to enter them too.



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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Tue, 17 Jun 2025 16:26:06 -0700, john larkin wrote:

I don't want to do mechanical design myself. I have two guys who do
that, and they use Solidworks.

Is it really a good idea to have all the work you have done locked up in a proprietary format under the control of someone else?

Perhaps ask them what they think of open-source alternatives like FreeCAD?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

In sci.electronics.design Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 17 Jun 2025 16:26:06 -0700, john larkin wrote:

I don't want to do mechanical design myself. I have two guys who do
that, and they use Solidworks.

Is it really a good idea to have all the work you have done locked up in a proprietary format under the control of someone else?

Perhaps ask them what they think of open-source alternatives like FreeCAD?

Especially when you are not even able to BUY that software, only rent. Not
just it gets extremely expensive after couple of years like it is now with
e.g. Altium Designer -- its cost PER YEAR is now the same as I paid for my PERPETUAL license when those were still available and "subscription" was
(still "is" for me as mine only expires in 2027) something like 1/4..1/3 of that and not mandatory. The biggest problem is what are you going to do when the company goes bust (it is not "if", it is _ALWAYS_ "when" -- the bigger
they are the harder they fall) or just decides they don't want to support
that outdated weirdo anymore when they have a newer one or suddenly want 10x last year price...

---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * ******************************************************************
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 00:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 17 Jun 2025 16:26:06 -0700, john larkin wrote:

I don't want to do mechanical design myself. I have two guys who do
that, and they use Solidworks.

Is it really a good idea to have all the work you have done locked up in a >proprietary format under the control of someone else?

STEP files are ASCII and not proprietary. Any good 3D program will
import STEP. So we archive everything as native SolidWorks and as
STEP.

But SLDASM files look nicer. Pretty colors.

Perhaps ask them what they think of open-source alternatives like FreeCAD?

They do beautiful work, so I'm not about to tell them how to do it.

Does FreeCAD import and export STEP?

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Tue, 17 Jun 2025 19:19:49 -0700, john larkin wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 00:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

Perhaps ask them what they think of open-source alternatives like
FreeCAD?

They do beautiful work, so I'm not about to tell them how to do it.

Maybe they’ve heard of FreeCAD already (if they are competent in keeping
up with their field, they will have), and they are waiting for you to
raise the topic. Just ask if they’ve heard of it.

Does FreeCAD import and export STEP?

If it’s an open, industry-common format, then yes.

<https://wiki.freecad.org/FreeCAD_Howto_Import_Export>

I’m sure you can figure out how to find out more for yourself ...
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 08:27:06 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 17 Jun 2025 19:19:49 -0700, john larkin wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 00:09:30 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

Perhaps ask them what they think of open-source alternatives like >>>FreeCAD?

They do beautiful work, so I'm not about to tell them how to do it.

Maybe they�ve heard of FreeCAD already (if they are competent in keeping
up with their field, they will have), and they are waiting for you to
raise the topic. Just ask if they�ve heard of it.

Does FreeCAD import and export STEP?

If it�s an open, industry-common format, then yes.

<https://wiki.freecad.org/FreeCAD_Howto_Import_Export>

I�m sure you can figure out how to find out more for yourself ...

People are expensive compared to the cost of SolidWorks. By about
100:1 or so.

They like it and design beautiful stuff fast. I'd be an idiot to annoy
them to save a few dollars.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 6/17/2025 8:49 PM, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

Especially when you are not even able to BUY that software, only rent. Not just it gets extremely expensive after couple of years...

Back in the early aughts I worked for a company that bought me a
Solidworks license. At the time, one seat allowed for three
installations: One on the work desktop, one on a home desktop, and one
on a laptop -- with the proviso that only one instance would be active
at any time. This was explicitly spelled out in the license, and afaik
was not enforced by any kind of "phone home" tech.

The company I was working for went bust, and I still have and use my
"home desktop" version of Solidworks. I have to keep an XP machine
around to run it on, which is not difficult for me (you should see my
garage! :-) but I believe I can convert it to a VM without breaking the license check, and that would run on modern hardware.

I'm sure SW has been extensively updated in the past couple of decades,
but the 200x version I have does everything I need.
--
I'm part of the vast libertarian conspiracy to take over the world and
leave everyone alone.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

In article <54845ktc5lspgu8g0ldv591l80m4kfbe1c@4ax.com>,
john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:

Does FreeCAD import and export STEP?

It does. I use it to check the STEP models KiCad generates, and for other purposes. (I'm still more comfortable using OpenSCAD for creating 3D models from scratch or modifying existing models...been meaning to get more up to speed with FreeCAD, but it's a bit like eating an elephant. :-) )
--
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?


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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 07:45:27 -0700, john larkin wrote:

People are expensive compared to the cost of SolidWorks. By about
100:1 or so.

So why are you bothering with that extra “EDrawing” tool? (Or whatever it was called.) With all the trouble it takes to set it up, why not just use another copy of SolidWorks for viewing those CAD files?

It’s because SolidWorks really isn’t that cheap, that’s why. Isn’t it? But
the extra work you have to do to save money is itself incurring costs for
your business -- hidden costs, compliance costs and licence administration headaches, opportunity costs (time wasted not earning revenue), all that.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 23:58:45 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 07:45:27 -0700, john larkin wrote:

People are expensive compared to the cost of SolidWorks. By about
100:1 or so.

So why are you bothering with that extra �EDrawing� tool? (Or whatever it >was called.) With all the trouble it takes to set it up, why not just use >another copy of SolidWorks for viewing those CAD files?

Edrawings is the free SolidWorks viewer. It displays .dwg and .dxf and
.step files too.

SolidWorks is expensive and has a big learning curve. I do mechanical
stuff with pencil and paper and give it to my guys to make real in
SolidWorks. I can view it with Edrawings.

One coold thing we do is design an enclosure and a PC board together.
We can export a .dxf file that shows all the mechanical details of the
PCB, which PADS can import when we do the real pcb layout.

No more writing down dimensions from the mechanical design and placing
parts on the board from that.

Lots of machine shops now accept the SolidWorks files to bend metal
and make enclosures too.

It�s because SolidWorks really isn�t that cheap, that�s why. Isn�t it? But >the extra work you have to do to save money is itself incurring costs for >your business -- hidden costs, compliance costs and licence administration >headaches, opportunity costs (time wasted not earning revenue), all that.

It all works very well.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 17:21:27 -0700, john larkin wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 23:58:45 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 07:45:27 -0700, john larkin wrote:

People are expensive compared to the cost of SolidWorks. By about
100:1 or so.

So why are you bothering with that extra “EDrawing” tool? (Or
whatever it was called.) With all the trouble it takes to set it
up, why not just use another copy of SolidWorks for viewing those
CAD files?

Edrawings is the free SolidWorks viewer. It displays .dwg and .dxf and
.step files too.

But you said “Edrawings is pretty good but needs a painful re-licensing ordeal roughly twice a week. For every computer you use it on.”

SolidWorks is expensive ...

My point exactly.

One coold thing we do is design an enclosure and a PC board together. We
can export a .dxf file that shows all the mechanical details of the PCB, which PADS can import when we do the real pcb layout.

What do you use for the PCB?

<https://www.kicad.org/>
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 6/19/25 02:21, john larkin wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 23:58:45 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 07:45:27 -0700, john larkin wrote:

People are expensive compared to the cost of SolidWorks. By about
100:1 or so.

So why are you bothering with that extra “EDrawing” tool? (Or whatever it
was called.) With all the trouble it takes to set it up, why not just use
another copy of SolidWorks for viewing those CAD files?

Edrawings is the free SolidWorks viewer. It displays .dwg and .dxf and
.step files too.

SolidWorks is expensive and has a big learning curve. I do mechanical
stuff with pencil and paper and give it to my guys to make real in SolidWorks. I can view it with Edrawings.

I quite like Fusion360 especially the CAM part. There is a free version
with some limitations for private use and small startups. The full
version is ~$700/year which for professional use is peanuts

One coold thing we do is design an enclosure and a PC board together.
We can export a .dxf file that shows all the mechanical details of the
PCB, which PADS can import when we do the real pcb layout.

ye, even Kicad can do that, import dxf and make it a board outline or
even artwork. And as long as your components have step files assigned
you can instantly bring up a 3D model of the board with components. You
could even make a dummy component with your enclosure so the 3D view is
with enclosure

No more writing down dimensions from the mechanical design and placing
parts on the board from that.

Lots of machine shops now accept the SolidWorks files to bend metal
and make enclosures too.

quite a few of the cheap Chinese PCB/assembly houses now also offers 3D printing/CNC/sheetmetal. Upload a step file, choose process and
materials and you get an instant price


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 01:36:44 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 17:21:27 -0700, john larkin wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 23:58:45 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 07:45:27 -0700, john larkin wrote:

People are expensive compared to the cost of SolidWorks. By about
100:1 or so.

So why are you bothering with that extra �EDrawing� tool? (Or
whatever it was called.) With all the trouble it takes to set it
up, why not just use another copy of SolidWorks for viewing those
CAD files?

Edrawings is the free SolidWorks viewer. It displays .dwg and .dxf and
.step files too.

But you said �Edrawings is pretty good but needs a painful re-licensing >ordeal roughly twice a week. For every computer you use it on.�

Not really twice a week. It times out in about a year, and it also
refuses to open .SLDASM files that were created by a more recent
version of SolidWorks.

But most software and things like security camera services and many
web sites are increasingly annoying. They want you to fill out a form
with your life history and have a password and get a text message with
an auth code to enable things until you have to do it again soon.

Some semi vendors require all that just to see a data sheet! I buy
something else.

SolidWorks is expensive ...

My point exactly.

Not too expensive for my guys to use to design things. Just too
expensive to use as a viewer. They could send me screen shots, but
it's fun to zoom and spin things around myself, which Edrawings does.
And it has the measure feature, so I can verify dimensions.

It does all that cool stuff apparently instantaneously, even on the
wimpiest laptop without fancy graphics hardware.

One coold thing we do is design an enclosure and a PC board together. We
can export a .dxf file that shows all the mechanical details of the PCB,
which PADS can import when we do the real pcb layout.

What do you use for the PCB?

<https://www.kicad.org/>

We use PADS. We've been using it since the DOS days when there was
basically nothing else.

It works fine. We'd cut over to something else if we had to, but we
have a lot of people who are used to it, and some add-on tools of our
own.

Many other pcb programs will import native PADS files, and PADS can
output most anything, actually everything, in ASCII.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 22:22:43 +0200, Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk>
wrote:

On 6/19/25 02:21, john larkin wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 23:58:45 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 07:45:27 -0700, john larkin wrote:

People are expensive compared to the cost of SolidWorks. By about
100:1 or so.

So why are you bothering with that extra �EDrawing� tool? (Or whatever it >>> was called.) With all the trouble it takes to set it up, why not just use >>> another copy of SolidWorks for viewing those CAD files?

Edrawings is the free SolidWorks viewer. It displays .dwg and .dxf and
.step files too.

SolidWorks is expensive and has a big learning curve. I do mechanical
stuff with pencil and paper and give it to my guys to make real in
SolidWorks. I can view it with Edrawings.

I quite like Fusion360 especially the CAM part. There is a free version
with some limitations for private use and small startups. The full
version is ~$700/year which for professional use is peanuts

One coold thing we do is design an enclosure and a PC board together.
We can export a .dxf file that shows all the mechanical details of the
PCB, which PADS can import when we do the real pcb layout.

ye, even Kicad can do that, import dxf and make it a board outline or
even artwork. And as long as your components have step files assigned
you can instantly bring up a 3D model of the board with components. You >could even make a dummy component with your enclosure so the 3D view is
with enclosure

No more writing down dimensions from the mechanical design and placing
parts on the board from that.

Lots of machine shops now accept the SolidWorks files to bend metal
and make enclosures too.

quite a few of the cheap Chinese PCB/assembly houses now also offers 3D >printing/CNC/sheetmetal. Upload a step file, choose process and
materials and you get an instant price

It's so much easier to design stuff than it used to be.

I barely remember when draftspersons would draw schematics on vellum
and tape PCBs on Mylar. I am too young to remember inked drawings on
starched linen, and inked PCB layouts too.

It was adventurous to run a trace between two pins of a DIP ic.

I still have one tape-on-mylar 4-layer PCB layout to show the kids. It
used to take two people two days to check a layout against a
schematic; I fell in love once doing that. Now it takes seconds.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 6/19/25 23:21, john larkin wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 22:22:43 +0200, Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk>
wrote:

On 6/19/25 02:21, john larkin wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 23:58:45 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 07:45:27 -0700, john larkin wrote:

People are expensive compared to the cost of SolidWorks. By about
100:1 or so.

So why are you bothering with that extra “EDrawing” tool? (Or whatever it
was called.) With all the trouble it takes to set it up, why not just use >>>> another copy of SolidWorks for viewing those CAD files?

Edrawings is the free SolidWorks viewer. It displays .dwg and .dxf and
.step files too.

SolidWorks is expensive and has a big learning curve. I do mechanical
stuff with pencil and paper and give it to my guys to make real in
SolidWorks. I can view it with Edrawings.

I quite like Fusion360 especially the CAM part. There is a free version
with some limitations for private use and small startups. The full
version is ~$700/year which for professional use is peanuts

One coold thing we do is design an enclosure and a PC board together.
We can export a .dxf file that shows all the mechanical details of the
PCB, which PADS can import when we do the real pcb layout.

ye, even Kicad can do that, import dxf and make it a board outline or
even artwork. And as long as your components have step files assigned
you can instantly bring up a 3D model of the board with components. You
could even make a dummy component with your enclosure so the 3D view is
with enclosure

No more writing down dimensions from the mechanical design and placing
parts on the board from that.

Lots of machine shops now accept the SolidWorks files to bend metal
and make enclosures too.

quite a few of the cheap Chinese PCB/assembly houses now also offers 3D
printing/CNC/sheetmetal. Upload a step file, choose process and
materials and you get an instant price

It's so much easier to design stuff than it used to be.

yeh, any kid can get pro level tools for free and for just a few dollars
get multi layer PCBs professionally made and assembled in a week

it's not that many years since that would be prohibitively expensive
unless it was going to make you money

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 01:44:10 +0200, Lasse Langwadt wrote:

yeh, any kid can get pro level tools for free ...

And yet some still insist on spending more money for not more
functionality.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 00:56:15 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 01:44:10 +0200, Lasse Langwadt wrote:

yeh, any kid can get pro level tools for free ...

And yet some still insist on spending more money for not more
functionality.

Except for hobbyists, the software has always been cheap compared to
the cost of people.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 13:46:21 -0700, john larkin wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 01:36:44 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

But you said “Edrawings is pretty good but needs a painful
re-licensing ordeal roughly twice a week. For every computer you
use it on.”

Not really twice a week. It times out in about a year, and it also
refuses to open .SLDASM files that were created by a more recent
version of SolidWorks.

So it hasn’t been keeping up with SolidWorks? Not really a good
substitute, then.

But most software and things like security camera services and many
web sites are increasingly annoying.

Make that “most *proprietary* software”.

SolidWorks is expensive ...

My point exactly.

Not too expensive for my guys to use to design things. Just too
expensive to use as a viewer. They could send me screen shots, but
it's fun to zoom and spin things around myself, which Edrawings
does. And it has the measure feature, so I can verify dimensions.

Does it have fly-through/walk-through modes?

It does all that cool stuff apparently instantaneously, even on the
wimpiest laptop without fancy graphics hardware.

That’s not a big deal any more.

<https://www.kicad.org/>

We use PADS. We've been using it since the DOS days when there was
basically nothing else.

Seems like it’s still around, but it’s gone cloud-only.

<https://sourceforge.net/software/compare/KiCad-EDA-vs-PADS-Professional/>

Apparently KiCAD got some investment money from CERN.

<https://www.reddit.com/r/KiCad/comments/wy20gi/wanting_to_switch_from_pads_to_kicad_is_it/>
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 01:46:26 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 13:46:21 -0700, john larkin wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 01:36:44 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

But you said �Edrawings is pretty good but needs a painful
re-licensing ordeal roughly twice a week. For every computer you
use it on.�

Not really twice a week. It times out in about a year, and it also
refuses to open .SLDASM files that were created by a more recent
version of SolidWorks.

So it hasn�t been keeping up with SolidWorks? Not really a good
substitute, then.

Sure it keeps up. But you have to update it to import a file created
with a recent version of SolidWorks.

It always works with Step files.

But most software and things like security camera services and many
web sites are increasingly annoying.

Make that �most *proprietary* software�.

SolidWorks is expensive ...

My point exactly.

Not too expensive for my guys to use to design things. Just too
expensive to use as a viewer. They could send me screen shots, but
it's fun to zoom and spin things around myself, which Edrawings
does. And it has the measure feature, so I can verify dimensions.

Does it have fly-through/walk-through modes?

It does all that cool stuff apparently instantaneously, even on the
wimpiest laptop without fancy graphics hardware.

That�s not a big deal any more.

<https://www.kicad.org/>

We use PADS. We've been using it since the DOS days when there was
basically nothing else.

Seems like it�s still around, but it�s gone cloud-only.

Not for us. We purchased six copies outright.

<https://sourceforge.net/software/compare/KiCad-EDA-vs-PADS-Professional/>

Apparently KiCAD got some investment money from CERN.

<https://www.reddit.com/r/KiCad/comments/wy20gi/wanting_to_switch_from_pads_to_kicad_is_it/>

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 2025-06-19, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:

I still have one tape-on-mylar 4-layer PCB layout to show the kids. It
used to take two people two days to check a layout against a
schematic; I fell in love once doing that. Now it takes seconds.

What now takes seconds:
- checking a PCB layout,
- falling in love?

;-)
--
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 19/06/2025 22:21, john larkin wrote:

I barely remember when draftspersons would draw schematics on vellum
and tape PCBs on Mylar. I am too young to remember inked drawings on
starched linen, and inked PCB layouts too.

It was adventurous to run a trace between two pins of a DIP ic.

Being old and cantankerous that is exactly how I do my simple PCBs to
this day, except that I use Corel draw and layers.

I spent a week trying to get a PCB cad program to work, gave up and did
the PCB in a day.

There is an online website that will convert Corel drawings to the
correct format for PCBs.
--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 19:16:49 -0700, john larkin wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 01:46:26 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 13:46:21 -0700, john larkin wrote:

We use PADS. We've been using it since the DOS days when there was
basically nothing else.

Seems like it’s still around, but it’s gone cloud-only.

Not for us. We purchased six copies outright.

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, unsupported software?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 19:16:49 -0700, john larkin wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 01:46:26 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 13:46:21 -0700, john larkin wrote:

We use PADS. We've been using it since the DOS days when there was
basically nothing else.

Seems like it’s still around, but it’s gone cloud-only.

Not for us. We purchased six copies outright.

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, unsupported software?

Far more than I’d trust the ever changing buggy offerings of Adobe/Microsoft/etc . Banking finds COBOL works just fine. I know some
major pharmaceutical plants still run critical processes on HP1000-21MX minicomputers from the 1970s!
--
piglet
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 23:52:52 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 19:16:49 -0700, john larkin wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 01:46:26 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 13:46:21 -0700, john larkin wrote:

We use PADS. We've been using it since the DOS days when there was
basically nothing else.

Seems like it�s still around, but it�s gone cloud-only.

Not for us. We purchased six copies outright.

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, >unsupported software?

It works fine. Makes lots of beautiful boards. Some recent ones:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/57jecrzc894uvktv72wrg/P978_A18.jpg?rlkey=4095oct5enxqp556xf44oy491&raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/vp6qnbsvtco835ckygc25/IMG_7467.JPG?rlkey=kx4tkpch2p61im4acvbxlw77d&raw=1

What software do you use? Show us some boards.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 23:52 this Friday (GMT):

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 19:16:49 -0700, john larkin wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 01:46:26 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 13:46:21 -0700, john larkin wrote:

We use PADS. We've been using it since the DOS days when there was
basically nothing else.

Seems like it’s still around, but it’s gone cloud-only.

Not for us. We purchased six copies outright.

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, unsupported software?

A lot of companies do, for one reason or another.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 14:10:07 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 23:52 this Friday (GMT):

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 19:16:49 -0700, john larkin wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 01:46:26 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 13:46:21 -0700, john larkin wrote:

We use PADS. We've been using it since the DOS days when there was
basically nothing else.

Seems like it�s still around, but it�s gone cloud-only.

Not for us. We purchased six copies outright.

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,
unsupported software?

A lot of companies do, for one reason or another.

I inherited a hammer from my grandfather. It pounds nails just fine.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 6/22/25 20:10, john larkin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 14:10:07 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 23:52 this Friday (GMT):

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 19:16:49 -0700, john larkin wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 01:46:26 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 13:46:21 -0700, john larkin wrote:

We use PADS. We've been using it since the DOS days when there was >>>>>> basically nothing else.

Seems like it’s still around, but it’s gone cloud-only.

Not for us. We purchased six copies outright.

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,
unsupported software?

A lot of companies do, for one reason or another.

I inherited a hammer from my grandfather. It pounds nails just fine.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, it is tempting to think of
everything else as a nail."

You expected that one, I suppose.

Jeroen Belleman
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 22/06/2025 19:10, john larkin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 14:10:07 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 23:52 this Friday (GMT):

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 19:16:49 -0700, john larkin wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 01:46:26 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 13:46:21 -0700, john larkin wrote:

We use PADS. We've been using it since the DOS days when there was >>>>>> basically nothing else.

Seems like it’s still around, but it’s gone cloud-only.

Not for us. We purchased six copies outright.

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,
unsupported software?

A lot of companies do, for one reason or another.

I inherited a hammer from my grandfather. It pounds nails just fine.

I use 20 year old CAD software. IN a walled garden
--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 09:59:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 19/06/2025 22:21, john larkin wrote:

I barely remember when draftspersons would draw schematics on vellum
and tape PCBs on Mylar. I am too young to remember inked drawings on
starched linen, and inked PCB layouts too.

It was adventurous to run a trace between two pins of a DIP ic.

Being old and cantankerous that is exactly how I do my simple PCBs to
this day, except that I use Corel draw and layers.

I spent a week trying to get a PCB cad program to work, gave up and did
the PCB in a day.

It would have helped to have someone walk you through it.

There is an online website that will convert Corel drawings to the
correct format for PCBs.

I was just a kid running DOS when I learned to use PADS. Now, older
and crankier, I still use PADS. And it will open all the old files.

What's weird is that we did dumb single and double sided boards back
then, with leaded resistors and TO92 transistors and DIP14 ICs. Now
we're doing 8 and 10 layer boards with 500-ball 0.8 mm pitch BGAs,
multiple pour layers, 0306 caps, coplanar waveguides, thousands of
stitching vias. But the old PADS would have done all that just fine.
PCBs really haven't changed. Just the video resolution is better now.

And the PCB houses will still make boards from the same Gerber files.

The advantage of a PCB program, over a drawing program, is that you
can draw a schematic and import it into a PCB and check it and stuff.
And you can have a library of parts, each with a schematic symbol and
a multilayer PCB decal.

Some of our boards have a thousand parts.

Opposite of you, I use PADS as a drawing program. And in ECO mode, I
can just draw a PCB without a netlist or anything.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 20:16:09 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

On 6/22/25 20:10, john larkin wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 14:10:07 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07
<candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 23:52 this Friday (GMT):

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 19:16:49 -0700, john larkin wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 01:46:26 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 13:46:21 -0700, john larkin wrote:

We use PADS. We've been using it since the DOS days when there was >>>>>>> basically nothing else.

Seems like it�s still around, but it�s gone cloud-only.

Not for us. We purchased six copies outright.

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,
unsupported software?

A lot of companies do, for one reason or another.

I inherited a hammer from my grandfather. It pounds nails just fine.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, it is tempting to think of >everything else as a nail."

You expected that one, I suppose.

Jeroen Belleman

Gosh, did you invent that phrase?

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

In article <iu0h5kt6a86jqhj8jas7fc8cqlrsf821jl@4ax.com>,
john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:

The advantage of a PCB program, over a drawing program, is that you
can draw a schematic and import it into a PCB and check it and stuff.
And you can have a library of parts, each with a schematic symbol and
a multilayer PCB decal.

With schematic and PCB software working together, it'll also help you make
sure that all of the connections described in the schematic are in the PCB.
A drawing program won't do that for you, which opens up a vector for missing connections that lead to bad boards. That this kind of capability is
available to hobbyist "weekend warriors" like me is nothing short of
amazing.

Here's my latest project, a recreation of some old hardware from just a
scanned PDF:

https://gitlab.alfter.us/salfter/ALF_sound_cards/-/tree/master/MC1?ref_type=heads

The original PCB layout was imported into KiCad as a guide to arrange components and make the same connections as the original. The schematic was captured beforehand to make sure the original design was verifiable (had to swap pins on a gate to make things match up). If you wanted, you could send the gerbers out to your favorite board house, order the parts, build a
board, and stick it in your Apple II. Only the sound generator chips (SN76489ANs) aren't available from the likes of DigiKey or Mouser, but eBay turned some up (buyer beware as they're all from China, but I've had OK luck
so far).
--
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 14:10:07 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 23:52 this Friday (GMT):

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,
unsupported software?

A lot of companies do, for one reason or another.

Sure, it works fine ... until the day it doesn’t.

And then, in the words of the song, who’re ya gonna call?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 06:28:39 -0700, john larkin wrote:

It works fine. Makes lots of beautiful boards.

Sure, it works fine ... until the day it doesn’t.

And then, in the words of the song, who’re ya gonna call?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 11:10:01 -0700, john larkin wrote:

I inherited a hammer from my grandfather. It pounds nails just fine.

Hammer-and-nail technology hasn’t changed appreciably in, since before
your grandfather was born.

Electronics is a slightly different matter.

Do you consider your software tools to be a strategic asset, or just an unavoidable expense?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 20:16:09 +0200, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, it is tempting to think of everything else as a nail."

The thing with Open Source is, you learn to use a range of tools.

Of course, the costs do add up. One tool might only be $0, but then you realize that’s $0 *per seat*, and the following month you discover you
have to pay another $0 to keep using the tool, and so on every month, or
even every week. Pretty soon you find you’re paying $00, or even $000 if
you don’t keep your costs under control. It’s just too tempting to add more pieces of software to do more different jobs.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 03:20:46 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 14:10:07 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 23:52 this Friday (GMT):

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,
unsupported software?

A lot of companies do, for one reason or another.

Sure, it works fine ... until the day it doesn�t.

And then, in the words of the song, who�re ya gonna call?

Lots of other pcb cad packages accept PADS files.

As many mechanical design packages accept dwg and dxf and step files.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 08:18:16 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 20:16:09 +0200, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, it is tempting to think of
everything else as a nail."

The thing with Open Source is, you learn to use a range of tools.

Of course, the costs do add up. One tool might only be $0, but then you >realize that�s $0 *per seat*, and the following month you discover you
have to pay another $0 to keep using the tool, and so on every month, or >even every week. Pretty soon you find you�re paying $00, or even $000 if
you don�t keep your costs under control. It�s just too tempting to add
more pieces of software to do more different jobs.

If a PCB sells for $5000, and we plan to sell hundreds of them, we'd
certainly lose sleep over the $0 cost of the layout tools.

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 08:15:07 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 11:10:01 -0700, john larkin wrote:

I inherited a hammer from my grandfather. It pounds nails just fine.

Hammer-and-nail technology hasn�t changed appreciably in, since before
your grandfather was born.

Electronics is a slightly different matter.

Do you consider your software tools to be a strategic asset, or just an >unavoidable expense?

PCB layout software is common and pretty much the same, so is hardly
strategic. Cost is minor too.

Our functions and circuits are strategic. And some of our Spice
models.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2