Thought Question: How many times do Apple owners buy each iPhone?
1. First they buy it for, oh, say $1000 to choose a simple starting
point. 2. Then they pay the sales tax on it, at, oh, say 10% in
California. (+100)
3. Then they buy all the basic hardware that Apple didn't provide.
(Charger, case, screen protector, earbuds at +$100 to +$200)
4. Planning ahead for tomorrow's storage needs at ten times the price!
(Jump from 128GB to 512GB or 1TB at +$300 to +$500)
5. Now it comes time to plan ahead for the crappy batteries to fail.
(Battery replacement or external power bank, +$50 to +$100)
6. So they buy the best warranty that Apple can sell them.
(AppleCare+ Warranty Extended coverage for damage and battery
Which is $1,750 to $2,200, depending on choices and upgrades.
You're essentially buying the iPhone twice. Once for the device,
& again for all that Apple didn't include or made optional.
For this scenario, let's assume a 4-year lifespan where Android owners >typically just buy a new phone, but Apple marketing tells Apple
owners to trade it in, so the vast majority of Apple owners get rid
of the old phone.
So what's the cost over 4 years then?
AppleCare+ is sold as a 2-year plan, which you can extend with a
monthly subscription. For an iPhone 16) here's the cost breakdown:
AppleCare+ $7.99/month ~$384 over the 4-year lifespan of the iPhone AppleCare+ with Theft & Loss $11.49/month ~$552 over the lifespan
Notice if you keep your iPhone for 4 years and stay subscribed, you're
paying nearly half the cost of the phone yet again just for coverage.
Luckily, iPhone owners are trained by App;le marketing to trade them
in so iPhones retain value better than any other smartphone brand.
After 4 years, they lose more than about 1/2 of their original value.
<https://www.applemust.com/iphone-still-holds-value-far-better-than-other-smartphones/>
Assuming you bought the case & screen protector so your iPhone is in
good condition (not cracked or worn), you'd get back around $500 in 4
years.
<https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-much-is-my-iphone-worth/>
+------------------------+----------------+
| Item | Cost |
+------------------------+----------------+
| iPhone | $1,000 |
| Sales Tax (CA ~10%) | $100 |
| Accessories | $150 |
| Storage Upgrade | $300 |
| AppleCare+ (4 years) | $384¡V$552 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Total Cost | $1,934¡V$2,102 |
| Trade-In Value | -$500 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Net Cost Over 4 Years | $1,434¡V$1,602 |
+------------------------+----------------+
Oh. That's interesting. I thought it was twice, but it's closer to
1-1/2 times, but if you have one major and one minor repair, it costs
more.
AppleCare+ covers 2 accidental-damage incidents per 12 months, so
over 4 years, you could have up to 8 covered incidents, each with a >deductible. Screen or back glass damage: $29 per incident
Other accidental damage: $99 per incident
Theft or loss (if covered): $149 per incident
Let's assume:
1 minor repair (e.g., screen): $29 ($31.90 with California sales tax)
1 major repair (e.g., drop damage): $99 ($108.90 with CA sales tax)
Total repair cost: $128
Here's your cost over the four year life of that iPhone.
+------------------------+----------------+
| Item | Cost |
+------------------------+----------------+
| iPhone | $1,000 |
| Sales Tax (CA ~10%) | $100 |
| Accessories | $150 |
| Storage Upgrade | $300 |
| AppleCare+ (4 years) | $384¡V$552 |
| Repair Deductibles | $140 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Total Cost | $2,074¡V$2,242 |
| Trade-In Value | -$500 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Net Cost Over 4 Years | $1,574¡V$1,742 |
+------------------------+----------------+
Over 4 years, the true cost of ownership for that iPhone, including
tax, accessories, upgrades, AppleCare+ & two repairs comes out to
about 1-1/2 about 1-3/4 times the original $1,000 price.
This is good news as before I made these calculations, I had thought
it would be closer to twice the price, so this is better than
expected.
What would you contribute to add even more added value to the
discussion?
What if you switched carriers and they gave you an iPhone for "free"?
Would that change the ownership cost?
Personally I don't purchase AppleCare or all those peripherals.
I do
pay for 50GB back up services at $0.99/mo. and share that with my
wife's account.
When I bought my iPhone 14 from T-mobile they "paid" for it with
monthly discounts on my bill. When I found out I needed a special
charger at an additional price I pushed the phone back at them and got
up to leave. That's when they put a new charger on the phone and
pushed it back toward me.
Marion wrote:
Thought Question: How many times do Apple owners buy each iPhone?
1. First they buy it for, oh, say $1000 to choose a simple starting
point. 2. Then they pay the sales tax on it, at, oh, say 10% in
California. (+100)
3. Then they buy all the basic hardware that Apple didn't provide.
(Charger, case, screen protector, earbuds at +$100 to +$200)
4. Planning ahead for tomorrow's storage needs at ten times the price!
(Jump from 128GB to 512GB or 1TB at +$300 to +$500)
5. Now it comes time to plan ahead for the crappy batteries to fail.
(Battery replacement or external power bank, +$50 to +$100)
6. So they buy the best warranty that Apple can sell them.
(AppleCare+ Warranty Extended coverage for damage and battery
Which is $1,750 to $2,200, depending on choices and upgrades.
You're essentially buying the iPhone twice. Once for the device,
& again for all that Apple didn't include or made optional.
For this scenario, let's assume a 4-year lifespan where Android owners
typically just buy a new phone, but Apple marketing tells Apple
owners to trade it in, so the vast majority of Apple owners get rid
of the old phone.
So what's the cost over 4 years then?
AppleCare+ is sold as a 2-year plan, which you can extend with a
monthly subscription. For an iPhone 16) here's the cost breakdown:
AppleCare+ $7.99/month ~$384 over the 4-year lifespan of the iPhone
AppleCare+ with Theft & Loss $11.49/month ~$552 over the lifespan
Notice if you keep your iPhone for 4 years and stay subscribed, you're
paying nearly half the cost of the phone yet again just for coverage.
Luckily, iPhone owners are trained by App;le marketing to trade them
in so iPhones retain value better than any other smartphone brand.
After 4 years, they lose more than about 1/2 of their original value.
<https://www.applemust.com/iphone-still-holds-value-far-better-than-other-smartphones/>
Assuming you bought the case & screen protector so your iPhone is in
good condition (not cracked or worn), you'd get back around $500 in 4
years.
<https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-much-is-my-iphone-worth/>
+------------------------+----------------+
| Item | Cost |
+------------------------+----------------+
| iPhone | $1,000 |
| Sales Tax (CA ~10%) | $100 |
| Accessories | $150 |
| Storage Upgrade | $300 |
| AppleCare+ (4 years) | $384¡V$552 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Total Cost | $1,934¡V$2,102 |
| Trade-In Value | -$500 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Net Cost Over 4 Years | $1,434¡V$1,602 |
+------------------------+----------------+
Oh. That's interesting. I thought it was twice, but it's closer to
1-1/2 times, but if you have one major and one minor repair, it costs
more.
AppleCare+ covers 2 accidental-damage incidents per 12 months, so
over 4 years, you could have up to 8 covered incidents, each with a
deductible. Screen or back glass damage: $29 per incident
Other accidental damage: $99 per incident
Theft or loss (if covered): $149 per incident
Let's assume:
1 minor repair (e.g., screen): $29 ($31.90 with California sales tax)
1 major repair (e.g., drop damage): $99 ($108.90 with CA sales tax)
Total repair cost: $128
Here's your cost over the four year life of that iPhone.
+------------------------+----------------+
| Item | Cost |
+------------------------+----------------+
| iPhone | $1,000 |
| Sales Tax (CA ~10%) | $100 |
| Accessories | $150 |
| Storage Upgrade | $300 |
| AppleCare+ (4 years) | $384¡V$552 |
| Repair Deductibles | $140 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Total Cost | $2,074¡V$2,242 |
| Trade-In Value | -$500 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Net Cost Over 4 Years | $1,574¡V$1,742 |
+------------------------+----------------+
Over 4 years, the true cost of ownership for that iPhone, including
tax, accessories, upgrades, AppleCare+ & two repairs comes out to
about 1-1/2 about 1-3/4 times the original $1,000 price.
This is good news as before I made these calculations, I had thought
it would be closer to twice the price, so this is better than
expected.
What would you contribute to add even more added value to the
discussion?
What if you switched carriers and they gave you an iPhone for "free"?
Would that change the ownership cost?
Personally I don't purchase AppleCare or all those peripherals. I do
pay for 50GB back up services at $0.99/mo. and share that with my
wife's account.
When I bought my iPhone 14 from T-mobile they "paid" for it with
monthly discounts on my bill. When I found out I needed a special
charger at an additional price I pushed the phone back at them and got
up to leave. That's when they put a new charger on the phone and
pushed it back toward me.
When I bought my iPhone 14 from T-mobile they "paid" for it with
monthly discounts on my bill. When I found out I needed a special
charger at an additional price I pushed the phone back at them and got
up to leave. That's when they put a new charger on the phone and
pushed it back toward me.
Why don't you address any of the bullshit he spouts in his post, Quisling?
Why don't you address any of the bullshit he spouts in his post, Quisling?
For the same reason he spouted bullshit about the "special charger".
Any USB charger (or battery pack) works fine with an iPhone.
On Aug 11, 2025 at 8:28:56 PM EDT, "Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
When I bought my iPhone 14 from T-mobile they "paid" for it with
monthly discounts on my bill. When I found out I needed a special
charger at an additional price I pushed the phone back at them and got
up to leave. That's when they put a new charger on the phone and
pushed it back toward me.
Why don't you address any of the bullshit he spouts in his post, Quisling?
For the same reason he spouted bullshit about the "special charger". Any USB charger (or battery pack) works fine with an iPhone.
Like Arlen, he knows nothing about iPhones/iOS/iPads. He is an Arlen sock puppet.
Marion wrote:
...What if you switched carriers and they gave you an iPhone for "free"?
Would that change the ownership cost?
Personally I don't purchase AppleCare or all those peripherals. I do
pay for 50GB back up services at $0.99/mo. and share that with my
wife's account.
When I bought my iPhone 14 from T-mobile they "paid" for it with
monthly discounts on my bill. When I found out I needed a special
charger at an additional price I pushed the phone back at them and got
up to leave. That's when they put a new charger on the phone and
pushed it back toward me.
On 8/11/25 16:38, badgolferman wrote:
Marion wrote:
...What if you switched carriers and they gave you an iPhone for "free"?
Would that change the ownership cost?
Good catch. His logical fallacy here is that he's trying to believe
that the "free" had zero strings attached, instead of its true costs
being hidden/obfuscated.
Of course companies know this, which is why they do the 'free' bit, for
the simple reason that some consumers are fooled by it, such as here.
Personally I don't purchase AppleCare or all those peripherals. I do
pay for 50GB back up services at $0.99/mo. and share that with my
wife's account.
Same; the $1/mo is a slippery slope for upsell opportunities, but for
those who can appropriately understand that and value, paying $12/year
isn't any sort of meaningful risk.
When I bought my iPhone 14 from T-mobile they "paid" for it with
monthly discounts on my bill. When I found out I needed a special
charger at an additional price I pushed the phone back at them and got
up to leave. That's when they put a new charger on the phone and
pushed it back toward me.
Interesting ... what was this supposedly "special" charger?
I'm wondering if it was your first new phone since Apple discontinued including a charger+cable in the box (which was the iPhone 12), as the
14 still used Lightning, so it wasn't the Lightning-USB-C transition.
FYI, the good news is that chargers/cables have become cheap enough
again to provision a few spares. Amazon currently has on sale an Anker charger ("Anker USB C Charger Block, 33W 2 Port Compact Charger"): $15
for black, or $19 for white. Its a dual output port ... USB-A and -C.
Similarly, for post-Lightning cables, one can currently get a two-pack
of 1m USB-C/-C cables for $9, or a pair of 2m lengths for $13. Again,
both are Anker, which I've found to be modestly better than Apple.
As you probably know, I feel AppleCare+ is a ripoff of the highest order.
It's roughly around $384 to $552 over the four years, which is value of the entire phone at the end of those four years (so it's just not worth it).
People paid for the AppleCare+ what the p;hone is worth when it breaks. Plus... they still have those deductibles (of around $150 for two repairs).
On 8/11/2025 6:16 PM, Marion wrote:
As you probably know, I feel AppleCare+ is a ripoff of the highest order.
It's roughly around $384 to $552 over the four years, which is value
of the
entire phone at the end of those four years (so it's just not worth it).
People paid for the AppleCare+ what the p;hone is worth when it breaks.
Plus... they still have those deductibles (of around $150 for two
repairs).
Apple Care is a ripoff in the same sense that term life insurance is a ripoff. When people buy life insurance they are essentially making a
bet that they are going to die within a specified time period. The overwhelming majority of life insurance buyers don't die within that
period, so they essentially lose the bet. That doesn't make life
insurance a bad purchase since it does buy peace of mind and not having
to worry about the worst case situation of dying within the coverage period. That, by the way, is a big part of why insurance companies make money.
Apple Care is conceptually no different. When people buy it they are
making a bet that something major will happen to their phone during the coverage period. In most cases, it costs more to buy the coverage than
the actual loss, but it does buy peace of mind for those who don't want
the unexpected possible cost of buying a new phone.
On 08/12/2025 09:18, -hh wrote:
On 8/11/25 16:38, badgolferman wrote:
Marion wrote:
...What if you switched carriers and they gave you an iPhone for "free"?
Would that change the ownership cost?
Good catch. His logical fallacy here is that he's trying to believe
that the "free" had zero strings attached, instead of its true costs
being hidden/obfuscated.
Of course companies know this, which is why they do the 'free' bit, for
the simple reason that some consumers are fooled by it, such as here.
Personally I don't purchase AppleCare or all those peripherals. I do
pay for 50GB back up services at $0.99/mo. and share that with my
wife's account.
Same; the $1/mo is a slippery slope for upsell opportunities, but for
those who can appropriately understand that and value, paying $12/year
isn't any sort of meaningful risk.
When I bought my iPhone 14 from T-mobile they "paid" for it with
monthly discounts on my bill. When I found out I needed a special
charger at an additional price I pushed the phone back at them and got
up to leave. That's when they put a new charger on the phone and
pushed it back toward me.
Interesting ... what was this supposedly "special" charger?
It was the Apple branded 20W fast charger. They told me the phone is designed for a different charger and won't get it's full potential
without the new charger.
I'm wondering if it was your first new phone since Apple discontinued
including a charger+cable in the box (which was the iPhone 12), as the
14 still used Lightning, so it wasn't the Lightning-USB-C transition.
I think they discontinued providing the charger and cable before the
iPhone 12, but maybe I'm wrong. But yes, I went from the 12 to the 14.
I started out with the 4 and have had almost every type in between.
Some have been corporate phones and some personal phones. Currently I
have two 14 models.
Because she never had a phone prior to that?FYI, the good news is that chargers/cables have become cheap enough
again to provision a few spares. Amazon currently has on sale an Anker
charger ("Anker USB C Charger Block, 33W 2 Port Compact Charger"):Â $15
for black, or $19 for white. Its a dual output port ... USB-A and -C.
Similarly, for post-Lightning cables, one can currently get a two-pack
of 1m USB-C/-C cables for $9, or a pair of 2m lengths for $13. Again,
both are Anker, which I've found to be modestly better than Apple.
Yes, of course one charger is not enough so I've had to buy more. That includes car chargers. My wife has a 15 model so I had to buy chargers
and cables for her.
On 08/12/2025 09:18, -hh wrote:
On 8/11/25 16:38, badgolferman wrote:
Marion wrote:
...What if you switched carriers and they gave you an iPhone for "free"?
Would that change the ownership cost?
Good catch. His logical fallacy here is that he's trying to believe
that the "free" had zero strings attached, instead of its true costs
being hidden/obfuscated.
Of course companies know this, which is why they do the 'free' bit, for
the simple reason that some consumers are fooled by it, such as here.
Personally I don't purchase AppleCare or all those peripherals. I do
pay for 50GB back up services at $0.99/mo. and share that with my
wife's account.
Same; the $1/mo is a slippery slope for upsell opportunities, but for
those who can appropriately understand that and value, paying $12/year
isn't any sort of meaningful risk.
When I bought my iPhone 14 from T-mobile they "paid" for it with
monthly discounts on my bill. When I found out I needed a special
charger at an additional price I pushed the phone back at them and got
up to leave. That's when they put a new charger on the phone and
pushed it back toward me.
Interesting ... what was this supposedly "special" charger?
It was the Apple branded 20W fast charger. They told me the phone is designed for a different charger and won't get it's full potential
without the new charger.
I'm wondering if it was your first new phone since Apple discontinued
including a charger+cable in the box (which was the iPhone 12), as the
14 still used Lightning, so it wasn't the Lightning-USB-C transition.
I think they discontinued providing the charger and cable before the
iPhone 12, but maybe I'm wrong. But yes, I went from the 12 to the 14.
I started out with the 4 and have had almost every type in between.
Some have been corporate phones and some personal phones. Currently I
have two 14 models.
FYI, the good news is that chargers/cables have become cheap enough
again to provision a few spares. Amazon currently has on sale an Anker
charger ("Anker USB C Charger Block, 33W 2 Port Compact Charger"):Â $15
for black, or $19 for white. Its a dual output port ... USB-A and -C.
Similarly, for post-Lightning cables, one can currently get a two-pack
of 1m USB-C/-C cables for $9, or a pair of 2m lengths for $13. Again,
both are Anker, which I've found to be modestly better than Apple.
Yes, of course one charger is not enough so I've had to buy more. That includes car chargers. My wife has a 15 model so I had to buy chargers
and cables for her.
On 8/12/25 09:43, badgolferman wrote:
On 08/12/2025 09:18, -hh wrote:
On 8/11/25 16:38, badgolferman wrote:
Marion wrote:
...What if you switched carriers and they gave you an iPhone for "free"?
Would that change the ownership cost?
Good catch. His logical fallacy here is that he's trying to believe
that the "free" had zero strings attached, instead of its true costs
being hidden/obfuscated.
Of course companies know this, which is why they do the 'free' bit, for
the simple reason that some consumers are fooled by it, such as here.
Personally I don't purchase AppleCare or all those peripherals. I do >>>> pay for 50GB back up services at $0.99/mo. and share that with my
wife's account.
Same; the $1/mo is a slippery slope for upsell opportunities, but for
those who can appropriately understand that and value, paying $12/year
isn't any sort of meaningful risk.
When I bought my iPhone 14 from T-mobile they "paid" for it with
monthly discounts on my bill. When I found out I needed a special
charger at an additional price I pushed the phone back at them and got >>>> up to leave. That's when they put a new charger on the phone and
pushed it back toward me.
Interesting ... what was this supposedly "special" charger?
It was the Apple branded 20W fast charger. They told me the phone is
designed for a different charger and won't get it's full potential
without the new charger.
Sounds like what you're saying that a T-Mobile salesman deceived you.
In any event, there's been different wattage output chargers for awhile,
and 'fast' chargers really only make a difference if one isn't charging overnight.
To be honest, I barely pay attention to the different power levels ...
size when packing is usually more important to me. The exception are chargers which I have paired with wireless charging pads, but as I say, "paired": the ones at home are never swapped around and the new one
that I have for use on the road has its own dedicated setup, including
its own carry bag that it gets stowed in.
I'm wondering if it was your first new phone since Apple discontinued
including a charger+cable in the box (which was the iPhone 12), as the
14 still used Lightning, so it wasn't the Lightning-USB-C transition.
I think they discontinued providing the charger and cable before the
iPhone 12, but maybe I'm wrong. But yes, I went from the 12 to the 14.
I started out with the 4 and have had almost every type in between.
Some have been corporate phones and some personal phones. Currently I
have two 14 models.
When that news came out, I was a bit perturbed about it, but in
retrospect, it was because I didn't have a plethora of spare chargers
and cables yet. Similarly, I've stopped worrying about paying $10 for a cable, especially since I've stopped buying the lousy Apple OEM ones
which have a poor stress relief design...I can now pretty easily get a
year out of one cable before it starts to fail.
That last is very useful!FYI, the good news is that chargers/cables have become cheap enough
again to provision a few spares. Amazon currently has on sale an Anker >>> charger ("Anker USB C Charger Block, 33W 2 Port Compact Charger"): $15 >>> for black, or $19 for white. Its a dual output port ... USB-A and -C.
Similarly, for post-Lightning cables, one can currently get a two-pack
of 1m USB-C/-C cables for $9, or a pair of 2m lengths for $13. Again,
both are Anker, which I've found to be modestly better than Apple.
Yes, of course one charger is not enough so I've had to buy more. That
includes car chargers. My wife has a 15 model so I had to buy chargers
and cables for her.
FWIW, what I'm starting to do now is to stage my transition for future
iOS devices being on USB-C instead of Lightning. It started when I stumbled across a USB-C cable which included ~1" long adapter plugs that allow for the same cable to be -Lightning and to -microUSB. Since then, I've found that these little adapters can be purchased separately too:
look for ones which include tiny little lanyards that allow them to be attached to the cable so as to not get lost.
What if you switched carriers and they gave you an iPhone for "free"?
Would that change the ownership cost?
Good catch. His logical fallacy here is that he's trying to believe
that the "free" had zero strings attached, instead of its true costs
being hidden/obfuscated.
It was the Apple branded 20W fast charger. They told me the phone is
designed for a different charger and won't get it's full potential
without the new charger.
Sounds like what you're saying that a T-Mobile salesman deceived you.
In any event, there's been different wattage output chargers for awhile,
and 'fast' chargers really only make a difference if one isn't charging overnight.
To be honest, I barely pay attention to the different power levels ...
size when packing is usually more important to me. The exception are chargers which I have paired with wireless charging pads, but as I say, "paired": the ones at home are never swapped around and the new one
that I have for use on the road has its own dedicated setup, including
its own carry bag that it gets stowed in.
I'm wondering if it was your first new phone since Apple discontinued
including a charger+cable in the box (which was the iPhone 12), as the
14 still used Lightning, so it wasn't the Lightning-USB-C transition.
I think they discontinued providing the charger and cable before the
iPhone 12, but maybe I'm wrong. But yes, I went from the 12 to the 14.
I started out with the 4 and have had almost every type in between.
Some have been corporate phones and some personal phones. Currently I
have two 14 models.
When that news came out, I was a bit perturbed about it, but in
retrospect, it was because I didn't have a plethora of spare chargers
and cables yet. Similarly, I've stopped worrying about paying $10 for a cable, especially since I've stopped buying the lousy Apple OEM ones
which have a poor stress relief design...I can now pretty easily get a
year out of one cable before it starts to fail.
FYI, the good news is that chargers/cables have become cheap enough
again to provision a few spares. Amazon currently has on sale an Anker
charger ("Anker USB C Charger Block, 33W 2 Port Compact Charger"): $15
for black, or $19 for white. Its a dual output port ... USB-A and -C.
Similarly, for post-Lightning cables, one can currently get a two-pack
of 1m USB-C/-C cables for $9, or a pair of 2m lengths for $13. Again,
both are Anker, which I've found to be modestly better than Apple.
Yes, of course one charger is not enough so I've had to buy more. That
includes car chargers. My wife has a 15 model so I had to buy chargers
and cables for her.
FWIW, what I'm starting to do now is to stage my transition for future
iOS devices being on USB-C instead of Lightning. It started when I
stumbled across a USB-C cable which included ~1" long adapter plugs that allow for the same cable to be -Lightning and to -microUSB. Since then, I've found that these little adapters can be purchased separately too:
look for ones which include tiny little lanyards that allow them to be attached to the cable so as to not get lost.
On 2025-08-12 10:49, -hh wrote:
On 8/12/25 09:43, badgolferman wrote:
[...]Sounds like what you're saying that a T-Mobile salesman deceived you.
In any event, there's been different wattage output chargers for
awhile, and 'fast' chargers really only make a difference if one isn't
charging overnight.
Precisely. Charging only needs to be fast enough to charge the device to
the level required for an individual's use case.
For me, that's an 80% charge I can easily get overnight which will then
let me use my iPhone all day.
When that news came out, I was a bit perturbed about it, but in
retrospect, it was because I didn't have a plethora of spare chargers
and cables yet. Similarly, I've stopped worrying about paying $10 for
a cable, especially since I've stopped buying the lousy Apple OEM ones
which have a poor stress relief design...I can now pretty easily get a
year out of one cable before it starts to fail.
This is one thing I've never understood.
I get years out of cables, pretty much regardless of the design of their strain relief.
FWIW, what I'm starting to do now...~1" long adapter plugs...[and]
look for ones which include tiny little lanyards that
allow them to be attached to the cable so as to not get lost.
That last is very useful!
On 2025-08-12 01:01:52 +0000, Tyrone said:
On Aug 11, 2025 at 8:28:56 PM EDT, "Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
For the same reason he spouted bullshit about the "special charger". Any USBWhen I bought my iPhone 14 from T-mobile they "paid" for it with
monthly discounts on my bill. When I found out I needed a special
charger at an additional price I pushed the phone back at them and got >>>> up to leave. That's when they put a new charger on the phone and
pushed it back toward me.
Why don't you address any of the bullshit he spouts in his post, Quisling? >>
charger (or battery pack) works fine with an iPhone.
Yes and no. Using the "wrong" charger can result in slow charging,
damage to the device, or even cause a fire. So, you do have to make
sure to get a "correct" charger for you device model, but the range
available is pretty large.
Mainly stay well away from el cheapo, no-name chargers and cables from
weird Asian stores (both online and on the high street).
On Aug 12, 2025 at 3:26:17 AM EDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> >wrote:
On 2025-08-12 01:01:52 +0000, Tyrone said:
On Aug 11, 2025 at 8:28:56 PM EDT, "Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com>
wrote:
When I bought my iPhone 14 from T-mobile they "paid" for it
with monthly discounts on my bill. When I found out I
needed a special charger at an additional price I pushed the
phone back at them and got up to leave. That's when they
put a new charger on the phone and pushed it back toward me.
Why don't you address any of the bullshit he spouts in his
post, Quisling?
For the same reason he spouted bullshit about the "special
charger". Any USB charger (or battery pack) works fine with an
iPhone.
Yes and no. Using the "wrong" charger can result in slow charging,
damage to the device, or even cause a fire. So, you do have to make
sure to get a "correct" charger for you device model, but the range
available is pretty large.
Mainly stay well away from el cheapo, no-name chargers and cables
from weird Asian stores (both online and on the high street).
The same can be said for using cheap chargers on ANY device.
The point is, I have used Samsung, Dell and HP USB chargers on
iPhones and iPads. I have used various battery packs. All work fine.
You don't need a "special charger" for any iPhone.
On 8/12/25 14:07, Alan wrote:
On 2025-08-12 10:49, -hh wrote:
On 8/12/25 09:43, badgolferman wrote:
[...]Sounds like what you're saying that a T-Mobile salesman deceived you.
In any event, there's been different wattage output chargers for
awhile, and 'fast' chargers really only make a difference if one
isn't charging overnight.
Precisely. Charging only needs to be fast enough to charge the device
to the level required for an individual's use case.
For me, that's an 80% charge I can easily get overnight which will
then let me use my iPhone all day.
Can't say that I've never had a phone at just 80% in the AM, unless the 'optimized' charging had failed. In any event, the original 5W Apple iPhone charger had quite a bit of appeal to me for its tiny size when I
was traveling a lot on business. With the rise of the iPad joining
along a lot of time, a more powerful charger became a 'necessary evil', although I have found Anker has nice GaN based chargers; their 20W is
the same cube as the original 5W Apples. I don't particularly care for Apple's current 12W charger, as its ~twice the cube of the original 5W charger and is pretty hefty for that output level: for the same cube,
one can get Anker's 323 33W charger with two output ports (the one I mentioned that's presently on sale for US$15).
When that news came out, I was a bit perturbed about it, but in
retrospect, it was because I didn't have a plethora of spare chargers
and cables yet. Similarly, I've stopped worrying about paying $10
for a cable, especially since I've stopped buying the lousy Apple OEM
ones which have a poor stress relief design...I can now pretty easily
get a year out of one cable before it starts to fail.
This is one thing I've never understood.
I get years out of cables, pretty much regardless of the design of
their strain relief.
I suspect some of it is that I sometimes will use a device when its
plugged in (especially now an iPad); the failure point is always at the
end of the stress relief. Even so, I'd say that this is probably only
20% of my utilization time, and as I alluded above, using a good 3rd
party brand has significantly reduced my cable failure rate.
...and checking my Amazon history, the cable that I noticed that's
starting to fail (replacement now on order) has been in regular use
since Dec 2021...so a longer lifespan than I was otherwise recalling.
My latest set of AirPods with the right size tips has mostly eliminated
FWIW, what I'm starting to do now...~1" long adapter plugs...[and]
look for ones which include tiny little lanyards that
allow them to be attached to the cable so as to not get lost.
That last is very useful!
Indeed. I've also been using 'wired' bluetooth ear buds for a semi- similar reason: seems that my left ear canal has a weird turn to it
that reliably drops earbuds, so having them be on a lanyard of sorts prevents their loss.
Tyrone wrote:
On Aug 12, 2025 at 3:26:17 AM EDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com>
wrote:
On 2025-08-12 01:01:52 +0000, Tyrone said:
On Aug 11, 2025 at 8:28:56 PM EDT, "Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com>
wrote:
When I bought my iPhone 14 from T-mobile they "paid" for it
with monthly discounts on my bill. When I found out I
needed a special charger at an additional price I pushed the
phone back at them and got up to leave. That's when they
put a new charger on the phone and pushed it back toward me.
Why don't you address any of the bullshit he spouts in his
post, Quisling?
For the same reason he spouted bullshit about the "special
charger". Any USB charger (or battery pack) works fine with an
iPhone.
Yes and no. Using the "wrong" charger can result in slow charging,
damage to the device, or even cause a fire. So, you do have to make
sure to get a "correct" charger for you device model, but the range
available is pretty large.
Mainly stay well away from el cheapo, no-name chargers and cables
from weird Asian stores (both online and on the high street).
The same can be said for using cheap chargers on ANY device.
The point is, I have used Samsung, Dell and HP USB chargers on
iPhones and iPads. I have used various battery packs. All work fine.
You don't need a "special charger" for any iPhone.
The "special charger" was something other than the 1 watt chargers we
used for iPhones at the time.
The "special charger" was something other than the 1 watt chargers
we used for iPhones at the time.
See... ...this is where the bullshit continues.
There was never a "1 watt charger" for the iPhone.
Alan wrote:
The "special charger" was something other than the 1 watt chargers
we used for iPhones at the time.
See... ...this is where the bullshit continues.
There was never a "1 watt charger" for the iPhone.
Sorry, I meant the 1 amp chargers.
The "special charger" was something other than the 1 watt chargers
we used for iPhones at the time.
See... ...this is where the bullshit continues.
There was never a "1 watt charger" for the iPhone.
Sorry, I meant the 1 amp chargers.
On 08/12/2025 09:56, Rick wrote:
On 8/11/2025 6:16 PM, Marion wrote:
As you probably know, I feel AppleCare+ is a ripoff of the highest order. >>>
It's roughly around $384 to $552 over the four years, which is value
of the
entire phone at the end of those four years (so it's just not worth it). >>>
People paid for the AppleCare+ what the p;hone is worth when it breaks.
Plus... they still have those deductibles (of around $150 for two
repairs).
Apple Care is a ripoff in the same sense that term life insurance is a
ripoff. When people buy life insurance they are essentially making a
bet that they are going to die within a specified time period. The
overwhelming majority of life insurance buyers don't die within that
period, so they essentially lose the bet. That doesn't make life
insurance a bad purchase since it does buy peace of mind and not having
to worry about the worst case situation of dying within the coverage
period. That, by the way, is a big part of why insurance companies make
money.
Apple Care is conceptually no different. When people buy it they are
making a bet that something major will happen to their phone during the
coverage period. In most cases, it costs more to buy the coverage than
the actual loss, but it does buy peace of mind for those who don't want
the unexpected possible cost of buying a new phone.
Insurance is one of those products you buy hoping to never use.
On Aug 12, 2025 at 3:26:17 AM EDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
On 2025-08-12 01:01:52 +0000, Tyrone said:
On Aug 11, 2025 at 8:28:56 PM EDT, "Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
For the same reason he spouted bullshit about the "special charger". Any USBWhen I bought my iPhone 14 from T-mobile they "paid" for it with
monthly discounts on my bill. When I found out I needed a special
charger at an additional price I pushed the phone back at them and got >>>>> up to leave. That's when they put a new charger on the phone and
pushed it back toward me.
Why don't you address any of the bullshit he spouts in his post, Quisling? >>>
charger (or battery pack) works fine with an iPhone.
Yes and no. Using the "wrong" charger can result in slow charging,
damage to the device, or even cause a fire. So, you do have to make
sure to get a "correct" charger for you device model, but the range
available is pretty large.
Mainly stay well away from el cheapo, no-name chargers and cables from
weird Asian stores (both online and on the high street).
The same can be said for using cheap chargers on ANY device.
The point is, I have used Samsung, Dell and HP USB chargers on iPhones and iPads. I have used various battery packs. All work fine. You don't need a "special charger" for any iPhone.
Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
On Aug 12, 2025 at 3:26:17 AM EDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
On 2025-08-12 01:01:52 +0000, Tyrone said:
On Aug 11, 2025 at 8:28:56 PM EDT, "Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>> When I bought my iPhone 14 from T-mobile they "paid" for it with
monthly discounts on my bill. When I found out I needed a special >>>>>> charger at an additional price I pushed the phone back at them and got >>>>>> up to leave. That's when they put a new charger on the phone and
pushed it back toward me.
Why don't you address any of the bullshit he spouts in his post, Quisling?
For the same reason he spouted bullshit about the "special charger". Any USB
charger (or battery pack) works fine with an iPhone.
Yes and no. Using the "wrong" charger can result in slow charging,
damage to the device, or even cause a fire. So, you do have to make
sure to get a "correct" charger for you device model, but the range
available is pretty large.
Mainly stay well away from el cheapo, no-name chargers and cables from
weird Asian stores (both online and on the high street).
The same can be said for using cheap chargers on ANY device.
The point is, I have used Samsung, Dell and HP USB chargers on iPhones and >> iPads. I have used various battery packs. All work fine. You don't need a >> "special charger" for any iPhone.
Correct and as long as it's got the right connection there's no such thing
as the "wrong" one. They will all work. Some will be faster than others
YMMV.
On Tue, 12 Aug 2025 09:18:20 -0400, -hh wrote :
What if you switched carriers and they gave you an iPhone for "free"?
Would that change the ownership cost?
Good catch. His logical fallacy here is that he's trying to believe
that the "free" had zero strings attached, instead of its true costs
being hidden/obfuscated.
You think like an Apple troll. Try to think like a normal human does.
The three Android phones were free (except for the sales tax & flip phone trade-in) but the iPhone cost, was essentially, the full price.
Fact is, both badgolferman & I got iPhone 12 models from T-Mobile way back
in April/May of 2021 when T-Mobile offered a "trade-in" deal for them.
None of the iPhones T-Mobile offered came with a charger.
All of the Android phones T-Mobile offered came with the correct charger.
The Android phones (Galaxy A32-5G) were free with a flip phone trade in.
Free means free - with no extra costs - which the Apple trolls can't fathom other than any phone as a trade-in & you have to pay sales tax on MSRP.
What you don't understand is I certainly understand that somewhere in T-Mobile's bottom line they must factor in the cost - but to the individual consumer, the Android phones were free (with conditions already stated).
<https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5SpS4D/tmopromo02.jpg>
They put a lien on the phone of 24/24ths of the MSRP on day 1, & then every month they removed 1/24th of that lien, until the lien evaporated.
But the iPhone 12 mini that I got at the time was NOT free, and, in fact, with an iPhone 7 as my trade in phone, it costs me about full price.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg>
Sometimes you don't act like an Apple troll, but when you claim I don't understand the math, you're exactly like the Apple trolls.
Don't ever for a moment think I'm stupid like you Apple trolls are.
For you to claim a "logical fallacy" is what Apple trolls do.
Pray tell us all: What is this logical fallacy you speak of?
Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
On Aug 12, 2025 at 3:26:17 AM EDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
On 2025-08-12 01:01:52 +0000, Tyrone said:
On Aug 11, 2025 at 8:28:56 PM EDT, "Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>> When I bought my iPhone 14 from T-mobile they "paid" for it with
monthly discounts on my bill. When I found out I needed a special >>>>>> charger at an additional price I pushed the phone back at them and got >>>>>> up to leave. That's when they put a new charger on the phone and
pushed it back toward me.
Why don't you address any of the bullshit he spouts in his post, Quisling?
For the same reason he spouted bullshit about the "special charger". Any USB
charger (or battery pack) works fine with an iPhone.
Yes and no. Using the "wrong" charger can result in slow charging,
damage to the device, or even cause a fire. So, you do have to make
sure to get a "correct" charger for you device model, but the range
available is pretty large.
Mainly stay well away from el cheapo, no-name chargers and cables from
weird Asian stores (both online and on the high street).
The same can be said for using cheap chargers on ANY device.
The point is, I have used Samsung, Dell and HP USB chargers on iPhones and >> iPads. I have used various battery packs. All work fine. You don't need a >> "special charger" for any iPhone.
Correct and as long as it's got the right connection there's no such thing
as the "wrong" one. They will all work. Some will be faster than others
YMMV.
...
Marion (Arlen) and his best bud badgolferboy desperately want to pretend "slower charging" equals "wrong", when that is very obviously complete
and utter bullshit.
desperately want to pretend
"slower charging" equals "wrong", when that is very obviously complete
and utter bullshit.
Wait until they go out to finally buy an actual new car ...
... and they learn that floor mats are optional equipment
On Wed, 13 Aug 2025 15:51:15 -0400, -hh wrote :
desperately want to pretend
"slower charging" equals "wrong", when that is very obviously complete
and utter bullshit.
Wait until they go out to finally buy an actual new car ...
... and they learn that floor mats are optional equipment
Why would anyone pay over a thousand bucks for a phone designed for fast charging, and then put a far-below-minimum-standards 5W brick on it?
On Wed, 13 Aug 2025 15:51:15 -0400, -hh wrote :
desperately want to pretend
"slower charging" equals "wrong", when that is very obviously complete
and utter bullshit.
Wait until they go out to finally buy an actual new car ...
... and they learn that floor mats are optional equipment
Why would anyone pay over a thousand bucks for a phone designed for fast charging, and then put a far-below-minimum-standards 5W brick on it?
Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2025 15:51:15 -0400, -hh wrote :
desperately want to pretend
"slower charging" equals "wrong", when that is very obviously complete >>>> and utter bullshit.
Wait until they go out to finally buy an actual new car ...
... and they learn that floor mats are optional equipment
Why would anyone pay over a thousand bucks for a phone designed for fast
charging, and then put a far-below-minimum-standards 5W brick on it?
Most modern cars can do well over 100 mph yet there are very few places
where you can legally do that speed.
Fast charging is a nice to have, but not necessary if all you do is charge your phone overnight.
A 5W is suboptimal, not "incorrect".
On 8/13/25 18:19, Chris wrote:
Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2025 15:51:15 -0400, -hh wrote :
desperately want to pretend
"slower charging" equals "wrong", when that is very obviously complete >>>>> and utter bullshit.
Wait until they go out to finally buy an actual new car ...
... and they learn that floor mats are optional equipment
Why would anyone pay over a thousand bucks for a phone designed for fast >>> charging, and then put a far-below-minimum-standards 5W brick on it?
Most modern cars can do well over 100 mph yet there are very few places
where you can legally do that speed.
"Look at all of those wasted speedometer markings!"Â <g>
Fast charging is a nice to have, but not necessary if all you do is
charge
your phone overnight.
A 5W is suboptimal, not "incorrect".
Even an old 5W charger is perfectly fine for an overnight charge.
Higher wattage is as the cited text says for the fast charging *option*.
-hh
On 2025-08-13 14:21, Marion wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2025 15:51:15 -0400, -hh wrote :
desperately want to pretend
"slower charging" equals "wrong", when that is very obviously complete >>>> and utter bullshit.
Wait until they go out to finally buy an actual new car ...
... and they learn that floor mats are optional equipment
Why would anyone pay over a thousand bucks for a phone designed for fast
charging, and then put a far-below-minimum-standards 5W brick on it?
False dichotomy.
Even an old 5W charger is perfectly fine for an overnight charge.
"On average, iPhone users have a higher income compared to Android
users....
On 2025-08-13 15:32, -hh wrote:
On 8/13/25 18:19, Chris wrote:
Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2025 15:51:15 -0400, -hh wrote :Most modern cars can do well over 100 mph yet there are very few places
desperately want to pretend "slower charging" equals
"wrong", when that is very obviously complete and
utter bullshit.
Wait until they go out to finally buy an actual new car ...
... and they learn that floor mats are optional equipment
Why would anyone pay over a thousand bucks for a phone designed for
fast charging, and then put a far-below-minimum-standards 5W brick on it? >>>
where you can legally do that speed.
"Look at all of those wasted speedometer markings!"Â <g>
Fast charging is a nice to have, but not necessary if all you do is
charge your phone overnight.
A 5W is suboptimal, not "incorrect".
Even an old 5W charger is perfectly fine for an overnight charge.
Higher wattage is as the cited text says for the fast charging *option*.
And his tacit assumption that if Apple doesn't provide the fast charger, then you can't possibly have one.
:-)
On Wed, 13 Aug 2025 18:32:39 -0400, -hh wrote :
Even an old 5W charger is perfectly fine for an overnight charge.
Heh heh heh... Overnight charging... what a joke.
If you're speaking of "overnight charging", you're not on Android.
For years now, only the iPhone has needed to be charged overnight.
On Wed, 13 Aug 2025 15:51:15 -0400, -hh wrote :
desperately want to pretend "slower charging" equals "wrong", when
that is very obviously complete and utter bullshit.
Wait until they go out to finally buy an actual new car ...
... and they learn that floor mats are optional equipment
Why would anyone pay over a thousand bucks for a phone designed for
fast charging, and then put a far-below-minimum-standards 5W brick on
it?
On Wed, 13 Aug 2025 18:32:39 -0400, -hh wrote :
Even an old 5W charger is perfectly fine for an overnight charge.
Heh heh heh... Overnight charging... what a joke.
If you're speaking of "overnight charging", you're not on Android.
For years now, only the iPhone has needed to be charged overnight.
many people
don't need their device to charge quickly anyway since they charge while
they sleep.
On Wed, 13 Aug 2025 18:38:58 -0400, -hh wrote :
"On average, iPhone users have a higher income compared to Android
users....
Heh heh heh... you do know 3/4 of the world uses Android devices, right?
You Apple trolls are *desperate* to consider yourselves an "elite" herd.
a. You do realize only rich countries have high iPhone ownership, right?
b. You do realize most of the world is on Android, right?
c. And that the US has higher income than most other countries, right?
Since the iPHone is a brain dead dumb terminal, almost nothing works unless you have full-time access to the Cupertino Matrix, which the USA & EU has.
And his tacit assumption that if Apple doesn't provide the fast charger,
then you can't possibly have one.
:-)
As well as the insinuation that for some bizarre reason, it is totally unacceptable to charge one's phone while you're asleep.
The rhetorical question that won't be answered is: other than when one isn't using it, what better time is there is to charge one's phone?
Of course the Engineering derivative from here is the power requirement:
for a duty cycle of an overnight (even a shortened ~6 hour one), how
much source wattage is satisfactory to meet the criteria? A: 5W.
In simple terms, Energy = Power * time = (5W * 6h) = 30Wh supplied
iPhone batteries are a nominal 4V, so 30Wh/4V (* 1000) = 7500mAh,
less efficiency losses, of course.
The iPhone 16 Pro Max reportedly has a 4,685mAh battery, so this supply capability accomodates a time safety buffer and/or efficiency losses of (7500/4685) = 1.6 = 60% margin.
For example, for just a 5hr sleep, its 25/4 => 6250/4685 => 1.33
iPhones have been able to fast charge for ages now.
On Thu, 14 Aug 2025 08:30:03 -0400, -hh wrote :
And his tacit assumption that if Apple doesn't provide the fast charger, >>> then you can't possibly have one.
:-)
As well as the insinuation that for some bizarre reason, it is totally
unacceptable to charge one's phone while you're asleep.
I'm trying to teach you to look deeper at your beloved Apple products.
What matters is why.
The rhetorical question that won't be answered is: other than when one
isn't using it, what better time is there is to charge one's phone?
You Apple trolls don't understand _why_ you're forced to charge overnight.
Of course the Engineering derivative from here is the power requirement:
for a duty cycle of an overnight (even a shortened ~6 hour one), how
much source wattage is satisfactory to meet the criteria? A: 5W.
In simple terms, Energy = Power * time = (5W * 6h) = 30Wh supplied
iPhone batteries are a nominal 4V, so 30Wh/4V (* 1000) = 7500mAh,
less efficiency losses, of course.
The iPhone 16 Pro Max reportedly has a 4,685mAh battery, so this supply
capability accomodates a time safety buffer and/or efficiency losses of
(7500/4685) = 1.6 = 60% margin.
For example, for just a 5hr sleep, its 25/4 => 6250/4685 => 1.33
The fact Apple puts crappy batteries in the iPhone has other ramifications.
I need you to understand that fact before I can begin to teach you way.
On 14 Aug 2025 16:00:05 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote :
iPhones have been able to fast charge for ages now.
What matters is Apple's strategy is to make you buy your phone many times.
One way Apple makes you buy the same phone many times is crappy batteries.
The point is Apple put in crappy batteries which dictated all your actions.
On 14 Aug 2025 15:55:31 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote :
many people
don't need their device to charge quickly anyway since they charge while
they sleep.
Please realize I'm trying to teach you something about Apple's strategy.
What's important is Apple's strategy of putting crappy batteries in the iPhone severely limits your choices. Apple isn't stupid.
Apple put crappy batteries in the iPhone for the same strategically fundamental reasons that Apple removed all the functional iPhone ports.
On 14 Aug 2025 15:55:31 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote :
many people don't need their device to charge quickly anyway since
they charge while they sleep.
Please realize
On 14 Aug 2025 16:00:05 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote :
iPhones have been able to fast charge for ages now.
What matters
You Apple trolls don't understand _why_ you're forced to charge
overnight.
Nobody is forced to charge overnight.
On 14 Aug 2025 18:48:26 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote :
Nobody is forced to charge overnight.
You do know that most Androids last for days, nowadays, Jolly Roger.
Don't you?
That's because there are 2,225 models with over 5AH battery capacities.
<https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nBatCapacityMin=5000&idOS=2>
Compare that to all iPhones have those crappy piece-of-shit batteries.
<https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nBatCapacityMin=5000&idOS=3>
And, oh, most Android still come with the correct charger in the box too.
No iPhone box ever had the correct charger for the latest iPhones, ever.
Did you ever wonder why you're buying every iPhone twice, Jolly Roger?
On 2025-08-14, Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
You Apple trolls don't understand _why_ you're forced to charge
overnight.
You're the troll here. Nobody is forced to charge overnight. You act
like there's no other way to charge, when that is very clearly not the
case.
Your troll is weak because you are a mental weakling.
On 8/14/25 14:48, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2025-08-14, Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
You Apple trolls don't understand _why_ you're forced to charge
overnight.
You're the troll here. Nobody is forced to charge overnight. You act
like there's no other way to charge, when that is very clearly not the
case.
Unfortunately, it is painfully obvious that they have no analytical background & experience in identifying/articulating operational
requirements and deconstructing them into technical specifications.
Didn't you mean "the correct floor mats"?Your troll is weak because you are a mental weakling.
He's whining because his car didn't come with floor mats! /s
He's whining because his car didn't come with floor mats!
On 8/13/25 18:37, Alan wrote:
On 2025-08-13 15:32, -hh wrote:
On 8/13/25 18:19, Chris wrote:
Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2025 15:51:15 -0400, -hh wrote :
desperately want to pretend "slower charging" equals "wrong", when that
is very obviously complete and
utter bullshit.
Wait until they go out to finally buy an actual new car ...
... and they learn that floor mats are optional equipment
Why would anyone pay over a thousand bucks for a phone designed for >>>>> fast charging, and then put a far-below-minimum-standards 5W brick on >>>>> it?
Most modern cars can do well over 100 mph yet there are very few places >>>> where you can legally do that speed.
"Look at all of those wasted speedometer markings!" <g>
Fast charging is a nice to have, but not necessary if all you do is
charge your phone overnight.
A 5W is suboptimal, not "incorrect".
Even an old 5W charger is perfectly fine for an overnight charge.
Higher wattage is as the cited text says for the fast charging *option*.
And his tacit assumption that if Apple doesn't provide the fast
charger, then you can't possibly have one.
:-)
As well as the insinuation that for some bizarre reason, it is totally unacceptable to charge one's phone while you're asleep.
The rhetorical question that won't be answered is: other than when one isn't using it, what better time is there is to charge one's phone?
Of course the Engineering derivative from here is the power
requirement: for a duty cycle of an overnight (even a shortened ~6
hour one), how much source wattage is satisfactory to meet the
criteria? A: 5W.
In simple terms, Energy = Power * time = (5W * 6h) = 30Wh supplied
iPhone batteries are a nominal 4V, so 30Wh/4V (* 1000) = 7500mAh,
less efficiency losses, of course.
The iPhone 16 Pro Max reportedly has a 4,685mAh battery, so this supply capability accomodates a time safety buffer and/or efficiency losses of (7500/4685) = 1.6 = 60% margin.
For example, for just a 5hr sleep, its 25/4 => 6250/4685 => 1.33
-hh
On 8/14/25 14:48, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2025-08-14, Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
You Apple trolls don't understand _why_ you're forced to charge
overnight.
You're the troll here. Nobody is forced to charge overnight. You act
like there's no other way to charge, when that is very clearly not the
case.
Unfortunately, it is painfully obvious that they have no analytical background & experience in identifying/articulating operational
requirements and deconstructing them into technical specifications.
Your troll is weak because you are a mental weakling.
He's whining because his car didn't come with floor mats! /s
-hh
On Thu, 14 Aug 2025 16:07:31 -0400, -hh wrote :
He's whining because his car didn't come with floor mats!
Heh heh heh... who is whining?
My phone doesn't cost me one-and-one-half to twice the MSRP just to own it.
Yours does. Not mine.
And my phone has a better battery than was ever put in any iPhone too.
Yours has to be charged every single night. Not mine.
Who's whining now?
On 2025-08-14 12:30:03 +0000, -hh said:What "places" say that?
On 8/13/25 18:37, Alan wrote:
On 2025-08-13 15:32, -hh wrote:
On 8/13/25 18:19, Chris wrote:
Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2025 15:51:15 -0400, -hh wrote :
desperately want to pretend "slower charging" equals "wrong", >>>>>>>> when that is very obviously complete and
utter bullshit.
Wait until they go out to finally buy an actual new car ...
... and they learn that floor mats are optional equipment
Why would anyone pay over a thousand bucks for a phone designed
for fast charging, and then put a far-below-minimum-standards 5W
brick on it?
Most modern cars can do well over 100 mph yet there are very few
places
where you can legally do that speed.
"Look at all of those wasted speedometer markings!"Â <g>
Fast charging is a nice to have, but not necessary if all you do is >>>>> charge your phone overnight.
A 5W is suboptimal, not "incorrect".
Even an old 5W charger is perfectly fine for an overnight charge.
Higher wattage is as the cited text says for the fast charging
*option*.
And his tacit assumption that if Apple doesn't provide the fast
charger, then you can't possibly have one.
:-)
As well as the insinuation that for some bizarre reason, it is totally
unacceptable to charge one's phone while you're asleep.
There are MANY places that will do give such advice, including many fire departments and Apple themselves, although it is usually talking about devices, mainly older ones, that do not have the new "auto shutoff"
feature. Some places do qualify that advice by saying not to charge it
on your pillow or under the bed covers, but other places simply say to
not charge overnight ... either way it is due to the risk of fire, of
which there have been quite a few cases of that happening with various chargable devices.
On 2025-08-14 13:44, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-08-14 12:30:03 +0000, -hh said:
...
As well as the insinuation that for some bizarre reason, it is
totally unacceptable to charge one's phone while you're asleep.
There are MANY places that will do give such advice, including many
fire departments and Apple themselves, although it is usually talking
about devices, mainly older ones, that do not have the new "auto
shutoff" feature. Some places do qualify that advice by saying not to
charge it on your pillow or under the bed covers, but other places
simply say to not charge overnight ... either way it is due to the
risk of fire, of which there have been quite a few cases of that
happening with various chargable devices.
What "places" say that?
Quotes and sources please?
What matters is the FACT that iPhones have been able to fast charge for
a long time, and many people have no need fast charging. Your trolls are weak.
On 14 Aug 2025 18:46:42 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote :
What matters is the FACT that iPhones have been able to fast charge for
a long time, and many people have no need fast charging. Your trolls are
weak.
What matters more than anything is the iPhone starts with a crappy battery. Everything you care about is harder because you're limited by Apple crap.
Why do you think iPhone RAM, batteries & hardware is such crap, JR?
Don't you think Apple puts crap in the iPhone to make you pay twice for it?
Apple isn't stupid.
They make the iPhone out of crap so you have to buy your way out of it.
On 2025-08-14 15:47, Marion wrote:
On 14 Aug 2025 18:46:42 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote :
What matters is the FACT that iPhones have been able to fast charge for
a long time, and many people have no need fast charging. Your trolls are >>> weak.
What matters more than anything is the iPhone starts with a crappy battery. >> Everything you care about is harder because you're limited by Apple crap.
And yet, somehow iPhones are regularly finish in the top for runtimes:
And yet, somehow iPhones are regularly finish in the top for runtimes:
Now now. You KNOW that Arlen can't deal with facts.
On Thu, 14 Aug 2025 23:47:59 +0000, Tyrone wrote :
And yet, somehow iPhones are regularly finish in the top for runtimes:
Now now. You KNOW that Arlen can't deal with facts.
Run times are tested when the phones are brand new.
The cheap batteries in iPhones make them die sooner.
One is measured in hours.
The other in years (charge cycles, actually).
On 8/14/25 17:07, Alan wrote:
On 2025-08-14 13:44, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-08-14 12:30:03 +0000, -hh said:
...
As well as the insinuation that for some bizarre reason, it is
totally unacceptable to charge one's phone while you're asleep.
There are MANY places that will do give such advice, including many
fire departments and Apple themselves, although it is usually talking
about devices, mainly older ones, that do not have the new "auto
shutoff" feature. Some places do qualify that advice by saying not to
charge it on your pillow or under the bed covers, but other places
simply say to not charge overnight ... either way it is due to the
risk of fire, of which there have been quite a few cases of that
happening with various chargable devices.
What "places" say that?
Particularly for Apple products specifically.
Quotes and sources please?
<https://tenor.com/view/stephen-colbert-popcorn-3d-glasses-watching- eating-gif-17602628>
Meantime, I cross-checked my most recent iphone device purchase against Marion's "one-and-one-half to twice the MSRP" claim and found it off by
a bit. Namely by his claim being ~3x higher than my actual. Oopsie.
-hh
On 2025-08-14 20:07:31 +0000, -hh said:
On 8/14/25 14:48, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2025-08-14, Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
You Apple trolls don't understand _why_ you're forced to charge
overnight.
You're the troll here. Nobody is forced to charge overnight. You act
like there's no other way to charge, when that is very clearly not the
case.
Unfortunately, it is painfully obvious that they have no analytical
background & experience in identifying/articulating operational
requirements and deconstructing them into technical specifications.
Your troll is weak because you are a mental weakling.
He's whining because his car didn't come with floor mats! /s
-hh
With modern cars I'd be more worried about the fact that many don't come with an actual physical key and keyholes (including the ignition)! :-(
On 14 Aug 2025 15:55:31 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote :
many people
don't need their device to charge quickly anyway since they charge while
they sleep.
Please realize I'm trying to teach you something about Apple's strategy.
What's important is Apple's strategy of putting crappy batteries in the iPhone
On 14 Aug 2025 18:48:26 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote :
Nobody is forced to charge overnight.
You do know that most Androids last for days, nowadays, Jolly Roger.
Don't you?
That's because there are 2,225 models with over 5AH battery capacities.
<https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nBatCapacityMin=5000&idOS=2>
And, oh, most Android still come with the correct charger in the box too.
No iPhone box ever had the correct charger for the latest iPhones, ever.
On 2025-08-14 20:07:31 +0000, -hh said:
On 8/14/25 14:48, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2025-08-14, Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
You Apple trolls don't understand _why_ you're forced to charge
overnight.
You're the troll here. Nobody is forced to charge overnight. You act
like there's no other way to charge, when that is very clearly not the
case.
Unfortunately, it is painfully obvious that they have no analytical
background & experience in identifying/articulating operational
requirements and deconstructing them into technical specifications.
Your troll is weak because you are a mental weakling.
He's whining because his car didn't come with floor mats! /s
-hh
With modern cars I'd be more worried about the fact that many don't
come with an actual physical key and keyholes (including the ignition)!
:-(
On 2025-08-14 13:46, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-08-14 20:07:31 +0000, -hh said:
On 8/14/25 14:48, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2025-08-14, Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
You Apple trolls don't understand _why_ you're forced to charge
overnight.
You're the troll here. Nobody is forced to charge overnight. You act
like there's no other way to charge, when that is very clearly not the >>>> case.
Unfortunately, it is painfully obvious that they have no analytical
background & experience in identifying/articulating operational
requirements and deconstructing them into technical specifications.
Your troll is weak because you are a mental weakling.
He's whining because his car didn't come with floor mats! /s
-hh
With modern cars I'd be more worried about the fact that many don't come
with an actual physical key and keyholes (including the ignition)! :-(
Given the increasing reliability of electronic devices, I'm less and
less concerned about that.
And I'm not sure it's really true that there is any car currently sold
that doesn't have at least some kind of backup key.
We've discussed this and everyone including you agreed that Apple batteries are very efficient.
Battery capacity is only one aspect, however you're
blind to that fact.
Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
On 2025-08-14 20:07:31 +0000, -hh said:
On 8/14/25 14:48, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2025-08-14, Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
You Apple trolls don't understand _why_ you're forced to charge
overnight.
You're the troll here. Nobody is forced to charge overnight. You act
like there's no other way to charge, when that is very clearly not the >>>> case.
Unfortunately, it is painfully obvious that they have no analytical
background & experience in identifying/articulating operational
requirements and deconstructing them into technical specifications.
Your troll is weak because you are a mental weakling.
He's whining because his car didn't come with floor mats! /s
-hh
With modern cars I'd be more worried about the fact that many don't
come with an actual physical key and keyholes (including the ignition)!
:-(
Or spare wheel!
Although TBF, in 30 years of driving I've only ever had to use the spare three times.
On Thu, 14 Aug 2025 23:47:59 +0000, Tyrone wrote :
And yet, somehow iPhones are regularly finish in the top for runtimes:
Now now. You KNOW that Arlen can't deal with facts.
Run times are tested when the phones are brand new.
The cheap batteries in iPhones make them die sooner.
One is measured in hours.
The other in years (charge cycles, actually).
Only an Apple troll could confuse the two completely different concepts.
This is one way I know how incredibly stupid you Apple trolls are.
We've discussed this topic for years and you *still* can't figure out that
a metric measured in hours isn't the same as metrics measured in years.
Who is that stupid?
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 08:29:05 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :
We've discussed this and everyone including you agreed that Apple batteries >> are very efficient.
I can teach you only if you can absorb the obvious well-known facts, Chris.
The efficiency benchmarks everyone agreed on show the iPhone efficiency
sucks compared to what Apple has been claiming was stellar efficiency.
Almost every OEM except Apple was able to earn an A in efficiency.
Battery capacity is only one aspect, however you're
blind to that fact.
What I'm not blind to, Chris, is that iPhone batteries are outright puny. And, that only the iPhone 15+ (barely) meet the EU min charge cycle spec.
Apple isn't stupid.
You think they put those bare-minimum crappy batteries there by mistake?
The crappy batteries are just one reason you buy every iPhone twice.
...
Your much touted (by you at least) Samsung Galaxy A32 5G with its much vaunted (by you at least) 5,000mA-h battery?
Yeah, it's runtime is 25 hours, 37 minutes...
...which is just 6 minutes...
...or just 0.39% longer, despite having a battery that's nearly 50%
larger (5,000mA-h vs 3,349mA-h).
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2025-08-14 13:46, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-08-14 20:07:31 +0000, -hh said:
On 8/14/25 14:48, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2025-08-14, Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
You Apple trolls don't understand _why_ you're forced to charge
overnight.
You're the troll here. Nobody is forced to charge overnight. You act >>>>> like there's no other way to charge, when that is very clearly not the >>>>> case.
Unfortunately, it is painfully obvious that they have no analytical
background & experience in identifying/articulating operational
requirements and deconstructing them into technical specifications.
Your troll is weak because you are a mental weakling.
He's whining because his car didn't come with floor mats! /s
-hh
With modern cars I'd be more worried about the fact that many don't come >>> with an actual physical key and keyholes (including the ignition)! :-(
Given the increasing reliability of electronic devices, I'm less and
less concerned about that.
They have increased the risk of theft through relay attacks, however.
I know that at least one does: the Nissan Leaf.And I'm not sure it's really true that there is any car currently sold
that doesn't have at least some kind of backup key.
I don't think EVs do.
On 8/15/25 06:11, Chris wrote:I don't know about your specific vehicle, HH, but if your key fob has a physical backup key inside it (as my BMW 135i has) then you could only
Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
On 2025-08-14 20:07:31 +0000, -hh said:
On 8/14/25 14:48, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2025-08-14, Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
You Apple trolls don't understand _why_ you're forced to charge
overnight.
You're the troll here. Nobody is forced to charge overnight. You act >>>>> like there's no other way to charge, when that is very clearly not the >>>>> case.
Unfortunately, it is painfully obvious that they have no analytical
background & experience in identifying/articulating operational
requirements and deconstructing them into technical specifications.
Your troll is weak because you are a mental weakling.
He's whining because his car didn't come with floor mats! /s
-hh
With modern cars I'd be more worried about the fact that many don't
come with an actual physical key and keyholes (including the ignition)!
:-(
Or spare wheel!
Although TBF, in 30 years of driving I've only ever had to use the spare
three times.
I've had to use a backup key probably ~20 times a few years ago ...
...because as it turned out, the car battery was old and during winter
cold snaps, its voltage would drop too low for the door lock system to
be happy. When the cold snap ended, it would be fine again...
It took a little while to figure out; finally replaced the car battery
and everything was fine again.
A quasi-related observation to this is that car keys are no longer waterproof. As such, driving someplace to go do a shore dive has one
more thing to plan for.
On 8/15/25 13:13, Alan wrote:Doesn't seem very "efficient", does it?
...
Your much touted (by you at least) Samsung Galaxy A32 5G with its much
vaunted (by you at least) 5,000mA-h battery?
Yeah, it's runtime is 25 hours, 37 minutes...
...which is just 6 minutes...
...or just 0.39% longer, despite having a battery that's nearly 50%
larger (5,000mA-h vs 3,349mA-h).
Hmmm...
5000mA-hr/(25:37) = 195.2mA-hr/hr
vs.
3349mA-hr/(25:29) = 131.4mA-hr/hr
Thus:
195.2/131.4 = 48.5% higher average power consumption by the Samsung.
I don't know about your specific vehicle, HH, but if your key fob has a physical backup key inside it (as my BMW 135i has) then you could only
take the physical key with you when you dive, and simply leave the
electronic portion inside the car.
On 08/15/2025 14:19, Alan wrote:
I don't know about your specific vehicle, HH, but if your key fob has a
physical backup key inside it (as my BMW 135i has) then you could only
take the physical key with you when you dive, and simply leave the
electronic portion inside the car.
Can you lock your car with the key fob inside?
On 2025-08-15 07:25, -hh wrote:
On 8/15/25 06:11, Chris wrote:
Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
On 2025-08-14 20:07:31 +0000, -hh said:
On 8/14/25 14:48, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2025-08-14, Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
You Apple trolls don't understand _why_ you're forced to charge
overnight.
You're the troll here. Nobody is forced to charge overnight. You act >>>>>> like there's no other way to charge, when that is very clearly not >>>>>> the
case.
Unfortunately, it is painfully obvious that they have no analytical
background & experience in identifying/articulating operational
requirements and deconstructing them into technical specifications.
Your troll is weak because you are a mental weakling.
He's whining because his car didn't come with floor mats! /s
-hh
With modern cars I'd be more worried about the fact that many don't
come with an actual physical key and keyholes (including the ignition)! >>>> :-(
Or spare wheel!
Although TBF, in 30 years of driving I've only ever had to use the spare >>> three times.
I've had to use a backup key probably ~20 times a few years ago ...
...because as it turned out, the car battery was old and during winter
cold snaps, its voltage would drop too low for the door lock system to
be happy. When the cold snap ended, it would be fine again...
It took a little while to figure out; finally replaced the car battery
and everything was fine again.
A quasi-related observation to this is that car keys are no longer
waterproof. As such, driving someplace to go do a shore dive has one
more thing to plan for.
I don't know about your specific vehicle, HH, but if your key fob has a physical backup key inside it (as my BMW 135i has) then you could only
take the physical key with you when you dive, and simply leave the electronic portion inside the car.
:-)
On 2025-08-15 11:55, badgolferman wrote:
On 08/15/2025 14:19, Alan wrote:
I don't know about your specific vehicle, HH, but if your key fob has a
physical backup key inside it (as my BMW 135i has) then you could only
take the physical key with you when you dive, and simply leave the
electronic portion inside the car.
Can you lock your car with the key fob inside?
With the physical key? Yes, of course.
On 8/15/25 15:01, Alan wrote:Not on mine. There is a procedure for doing it.
On 2025-08-15 11:55, badgolferman wrote:
On 08/15/2025 14:19, Alan wrote:
I don't know about your specific vehicle, HH, but if your key fob has a >>>> physical backup key inside it (as my BMW 135i has) then you could only >>>> take the physical key with you when you dive, and simply leave the
electronic portion inside the car.
Can you lock your car with the key fob inside?
With the physical key? Yes, of course.
With the "keyless entry" systems, probably not. The key would have to
have its RF signal blocked (Faraday pouch) so that the car's receiver believes that it isn't present.
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 08:29:05 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :
We've discussed this and everyone including you agreed that Apple batteries >> are very efficient.
I can teach you only if you can absorb the obvious well-known facts, Chris.
The efficiency benchmarks everyone agreed on show the iPhone efficiency
sucks compared to what Apple has been claiming was stellar efficiency.
Almost every OEM except Apple was able to earn an A in efficiency.
Battery capacity is only one aspect, however you're
blind to that fact.
What I'm not blind to, Chris, is that iPhone batteries are outright puny. And, that only the iPhone 15+ (barely) meet the EU min charge cycle spec.
Apple isn't stupid.
On 2025-08-15 03:16, Chris wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2025-08-14 13:46, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-08-14 20:07:31 +0000, -hh said:
On 8/14/25 14:48, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2025-08-14, Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
You Apple trolls don't understand _why_ you're forced to charge
overnight.
You're the troll here. Nobody is forced to charge overnight. You act >>>>>> like there's no other way to charge, when that is very clearly not the >>>>>> case.
Unfortunately, it is painfully obvious that they have no analytical
background & experience in identifying/articulating operational
requirements and deconstructing them into technical specifications.
Your troll is weak because you are a mental weakling.
He's whining because his car didn't come with floor mats! /s
-hh
With modern cars I'd be more worried about the fact that many don't come >>>> with an actual physical key and keyholes (including the ignition)! :-( >>>>
Given the increasing reliability of electronic devices, I'm less and
less concerned about that.
They have increased the risk of theft through relay attacks, however.
Fair point.
I know that at least one does: the Nissan Leaf.
And I'm not sure it's really true that there is any car currently sold
that doesn't have at least some kind of backup key.
I don't think EVs do.
As does the Acura ZDX
As does the Audi A6 e-tron
As does the BMW i4
I could go on, but so far I haven't found a single EV where there isn't
a backup, physical key...
...except the Teslas.
On 8/15/25 14:19, Alan wrote:
On 2025-08-15 07:25, -hh wrote:
On 8/15/25 06:11, Chris wrote:
Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
On 2025-08-14 20:07:31 +0000, -hh said:
On 8/14/25 14:48, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2025-08-14, Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
You Apple trolls don't understand _why_ you're forced to charge >>>>>>>> overnight.
You're the troll here. Nobody is forced to charge overnight. You act >>>>>>> like there's no other way to charge, when that is very clearly not the >>>>>>> case.
Unfortunately, it is painfully obvious that they have no analytical >>>>>> background & experience in identifying/articulating operational
requirements and deconstructing them into technical specifications. >>>>>>
Your troll is weak because you are a mental weakling.
He's whining because his car didn't come with floor mats! /s
-hh
With modern cars I'd be more worried about the fact that many don't
come with an actual physical key and keyholes (including the ignition)! >>>>> :-(
Or spare wheel!
Although TBF, in 30 years of driving I've only ever had to use the spare >>>> three times.
I've had to use a backup key probably ~20 times a few years ago ...
...because as it turned out, the car battery was old and during winter
cold snaps, its voltage would drop too low for the door lock system to
be happy. When the cold snap ended, it would be fine again...
It took a little while to figure out; finally replaced the car battery
and everything was fine again.
A quasi-related observation to this is that car keys are no longer
waterproof. As such, driving someplace to go do a shore dive has one
more thing to plan for.
I don't know about your specific vehicle, HH, but if your key fob has a
physical backup key inside it (as my BMW 135i has) then you could only
take the physical key with you when you dive, and simply leave the
electronic portion inside the car.
:-)
I've contemplated that, as there is a physical door key that can be
removed and to mechanically unlock a door.
The dilemma is that I'd have to put the electronic fob portion into a Faraday pouch so that its not detected as present for the auto-unlock.
Plus I've not looked to see if there's a countdown timer (alarm) for
the electronic fob has to handshake with the car after a physical
unlock.
An easier solution is to bring along a bubblewatcher and have them hold
the keys ;-)
-hh
I can teach you only if you can absorb the obvious well-known facts, Chris.
What's clear is your "facts" are actual lies for the majority.
I, on the other hand, have access to bona fide data.
The efficiency benchmarks everyone agreed on show the iPhone efficiency
sucks compared to what Apple has been claiming was stellar efficiency.
False. Your memory is failing you.
Almost every OEM except Apple was able to earn an A in efficiency.
False. 32/73 (44%) Android manufacturers did not achieve an "A".
Battery capacity is only one aspect, however you're
blind to that fact.
What I'm not blind to, Chris, is that iPhone batteries are outright puny.
And, that only the iPhone 15+ (barely) meet the EU min charge cycle spec.
False. All current iphones meet the specs with 1000 cycles. iirc the
minimum is 800. They'd be breaking the law otherwise.
Note that 155 (26%) Android models have a lower cycle count than iphones.
Apple isn't stupid.
Correct.
195.2/131.4 = 48.5% higher average power consumption by the Samsung.
Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
On 2025-08-14 20:07:31 +0000, -hh said:
On 8/14/25 14:48, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2025-08-14, Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
You Apple trolls don't understand _why_ you're forced to charge
overnight.
You're the troll here. Nobody is forced to charge overnight. You act
like there's no other way to charge, when that is very clearly not the >>>> case.
Unfortunately, it is painfully obvious that they have no analytical
background & experience in identifying/articulating operational
requirements and deconstructing them into technical specifications.
Your troll is weak because you are a mental weakling.
He's whining because his car didn't come with floor mats! /s
-hh
With modern cars I'd be more worried about the fact that many don't
come with an actual physical key and keyholes (including the ignition)!
:-(
Or spare wheel!
Although TBF, in 30 years of driving I've only ever had to use the spare three times.
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:53:07 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :
I, on the other hand, have access to bona fide data.
You saw the way I made the total cost of ownership calculation, Chris.
I didn't hide anything.
They killed that guy,
Almost every OEM except Apple was able to earn an A in efficiency.
False. 32/73 (44%) Android manufacturers did not achieve an "A".
What matters, Chris, is Apple advertises their efficiency.
Note that 155 (26%) Android models have a lower cycle count than iphones.
Jesus Chris, Chris.
To claim that a $35 Android with a shitty battery is what you compare
your
$1000 iPhone to (which also has a shitty battery) is a sign of desperation.
Apple isn't stupid.
Correct.
If the best answer you have to the shitty batteries in iPHone's is that they're just as shitty as those in $35 Androids,
You saw the way I made the total cost of ownership calculation, Chris.
I didn't hide anything.
Correct. Everyone can see your idiocy.
What matters, Chris, is Apple advertises their efficiency.
Only of their *chargers*. Not batteries.
You're simply guessing.
Remember that 14/17 (82%) Samsung models are B & C
class (incl. the successor to your phone) and 3/5 (60%) Pixels are B class. Are they also shitty phones?
Take the Vivo x200 FE. Costs more than an iphone; ¤799 vs ¤719. https://m.gsmarena.com/vivo_x200_fe_5g-13847.php
Class B and 800 cycles.
Yet again, you're full of shit.
your
$1000 iPhone to (which also has a shitty battery) is a sign of desperation.
My phone was significantly less than $1000.
Apple isn't stupid.
Correct.
If the best answer you have to the shitty batteries in iPHone's is that
they're just as shitty as those in $35 Androids,
My best answer is that everything you say is provably a lie.
Or spare wheel!
Yep. There should ALWAYS be a proper, full-size spare wheel (not the
silly smaller "space-saver"). The sole reason car makers stopped
putting spare wheels in was to lower the weight so they could cheat the emissions and efficiency tests. X-(
Although TBF, in 30 years of driving I've only ever had to use the spare
three times.
Far better to have one and rarely need it, than to not have one at all
when you do need it.
On 2025-08-15 20:37:24 +0000, -hh said:
On 8/15/25 14:19, Alan wrote:
On 2025-08-15 07:25, -hh wrote:
On 8/15/25 06:11, Chris wrote:
Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
On 2025-08-14 20:07:31 +0000, -hh said:
On 8/14/25 14:48, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2025-08-14, Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
You Apple trolls don't understand _why_ you're forced to charge >>>>>>>>> overnight.
You're the troll here. Nobody is forced to charge overnight. You >>>>>>>> act
like there's no other way to charge, when that is very clearly >>>>>>>> not the
case.
Unfortunately, it is painfully obvious that they have no analytical >>>>>>> background & experience in identifying/articulating operational
requirements and deconstructing them into technical specifications. >>>>>>>
Your troll is weak because you are a mental weakling.
He's whining because his car didn't come with floor mats! /s
-hh
With modern cars I'd be more worried about the fact that many don't >>>>>> come with an actual physical key and keyholes (including the
ignition)!
:-(
Or spare wheel!
Although TBF, in 30 years of driving I've only ever had to use the
spare
three times.
I've had to use a backup key probably ~20 times a few years ago ...
...because as it turned out, the car battery was old and during
winter cold snaps, its voltage would drop too low for the door lock
system to be happy. When the cold snap ended, it would be fine
again...
It took a little while to figure out; finally replaced the car
battery and everything was fine again.
A quasi-related observation to this is that car keys are no longer
waterproof. As such, driving someplace to go do a shore dive has
one more thing to plan for.
I don't know about your specific vehicle, HH, but if your key fob has
a physical backup key inside it (as my BMW 135i has) then you could
only take the physical key with you when you dive, and simply leave
the electronic portion inside the car.
:-)
I've contemplated that, as there is a physical door key that can be
removed and to mechanically unlock a door.
The dilemma is that I'd have to put the electronic fob portion into a
Faraday pouch so that its not detected as present for the auto-unlock.
Plus I've not looked to see if there's a countdown timer (alarm) for
the electronic fob has to handshake with the car after a physical unlock.
An easier solution is to bring along a bubblewatcher and have them
hold the keys ;-)
-hh
An even easier solution is to not going diving in the first place. :-p
+------------------------+----------------+
| Item | Cost |
+------------------------+----------------+
| iPhone | $267 |
| Sales Tax | $25 |
| Accessories | $0 |
| Storage Upgrade | $0 |
| AppleCare+ (4 years) | $0 |
| Repair Deductibles | $0 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Total Cost | $292 |
| Trade-In Value | -$50 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Net Cost Over 4 Years | $242, or $60/yr |
+------------------------+----------------+
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 13:37:51 -0400, -hh wrote :
+------------------------+----------------+
| Item | Cost |
+------------------------+----------------+
| iPhone | $267 |
| Sales Tax | $25 |
| Accessories | $0 |
| Storage Upgrade | $0 |
| AppleCare+ (4 years) | $0 |
| Repair Deductibles | $0 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Total Cost | $292 |
| Trade-In Value | -$50 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Net Cost Over 4 Years | $242, or $60/yr |
+------------------------+----------------+
Thanks for supplying real-world numbers for your total cost of ownership.
In order for us to better understand your math, you may need to more completely explain what iPhone & when & how was it $267 total initial cost.
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 09:36:24 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :
You saw the way I made the total cost of ownership calculation, Chris.
I didn't hide anything.
Correct. Everyone can see your idiocy.
Heh heh heh .... I supplied the math, Chris. All the numbers are there.
You brazenly deny all the math without supplying a single number Chris.
It's obvious that you're *desperate* to deny basic math.
Why?
Why must you defend Apple to the death Chris?
What matters, Chris, is Apple advertises their efficiency.
Only of their *chargers*. Not batteries.
Heh heh heh ... Now it's time to *begin* to teach you Apple trolls.
Did you ever _L@@K_ at Apple's "efficiency" claims?
HINT: It's not just the chargers.
You're simply guessing.
You took all Androids by Samsung. Mine is about $189 MSRP, which I received for free, but let's use the $189 MSRP. It has a GREAT battery.
My battery at 5AH has way more capacity than the crappy battery in iPhones.
HINT: That's not a guess.
That's a fact.
Remember that 14/17 (82%) Samsung models are B & C
class (incl. the successor to your phone) and 3/5 (60%) Pixels are B class. >> Are they also shitty phones?
Take the Vivo x200 FE. Costs more than an iphone; ค799 vs ค719.
https://m.gsmarena.com/vivo_x200_fe_5g-13847.php
Class B and 800 cycles.
Yet again, you're full of shit.
What matters,
yourMy phone was significantly less than $1000.
$1000 iPhone to (which also has a shitty battery) is a sign of desperation. >>
So was mine in 2021 and it's still going strong.
But mine has a 5AH battery.
Apple isn't stupid.
Correct.
If the best answer you have to the shitty batteries in iPHone's is that
they're just as shitty as those in $35 Androids,
My best answer is that everything you say is provably a lie.
I gave you the math.
Here it is again. Provide your own numbers. Let's see how many times you're paying for that iPhone over the expected lifetime of the phone, Chris.
The whole point is to make you *THINK* about the total cost of ownership. Apple will never tell you this.
Only I will teach you, Chris.
Not Apple.
Here are the original numbers which you appear to hate.
Fine. I'm not afraid of the math.
You tell us what you think these numbers should be, Chris.
+------------------------+----------------+
| Item | Cost |
+------------------------+----------------+
| iPhone | $1,000 |
| Sales Tax (CA ~10%) | $100 |
| Accessories | $150 |
| Storage Upgrade | $300 |
| AppleCare+ (4 years) | $384 to $552 |
| Repair Deductibles | $140 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Total Cost | $2,074 to $2,242|
| Trade-In Value | -$500 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Net Cost Over 4 Years | $1,574 to $1,742|
+------------------------+----------------+
I'm not afraid of the math. Here it is above. No fears from me.
What about you?
    | Item                 | Cost           |
    +------------------------+----------------+
    | iPhone               | $267           |
Thought Question: How many times do Apple owners buy each iPhone?
1. First they buy it for, oh, say $1000 to choose a simple starting point.
2. Then they pay the sales tax on it, at, oh, say 10% in California.
(+100)
3. Then they buy all the basic hardware that Apple didn't provide.
(Charger, case, screen protector, earbuds at +$100 to +$200)
4. Planning ahead for tomorrow's storage needs at ten times the price!
(Jump from 128GB to 512GB or 1TB at +$300 to +$500)
5. Now it comes time to plan ahead for the crappy batteries to fail.
(Battery replacement or external power bank, +$50 to +$100)
6. So they buy the best warranty that Apple can sell them.
(AppleCare+ Warranty Extended coverage for damage and battery
Which is $1,750 to $2,200, depending on choices and upgrades.
You're essentially buying the iPhone twice. Once for the device,
& again for all that Apple didn't include or made optional.
For this scenario, let's assume a 4-year lifespan where Android owners typically just buy a new phone, but Apple marketing tells Apple owners to trade it in, so the vast majority of Apple owners get rid of the old phone.
So what's the cost over 4 years then?
AppleCare+ is sold as a 2-year plan, which you can extend with a monthly subscription. For an iPhone 16) here's the cost breakdown:
AppleCare+ $7.99/month ~$384 over the 4-year lifespan of the iPhone
AppleCare+ with Theft & Loss $11.49/month ~$552 over the lifespan
Notice if you keep your iPhone for 4 years and stay subscribed, you're
paying nearly half the cost of the phone yet again just for coverage.
Luckily, iPhone owners are trained by App;le marketing to trade them in
so iPhones retain value better than any other smartphone brand.
After 4 years, they lose more than about 1/2 of their original value.
<https://www.applemust.com/iphone-still-holds-value-far-better-than-other-smartphones/>
Assuming you bought the case & screen protector so your iPhone is in good condition (not cracked or worn), you'd get back around $500 in 4 years.
<https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-much-is-my-iphone-worth/>
+------------------------+----------------+
| Item | Cost |
+------------------------+----------------+
| iPhone | $1,000 |
| Sales Tax (CA ~10%) | $100 |
| Accessories | $150 |
| Storage Upgrade | $300 |
| AppleCare+ (4 years) | $384–$552 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Total Cost | $1,934–$2,102 |
| Trade-In Value | -$500 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Net Cost Over 4 Years | $1,434–$1,602 |
+------------------------+----------------+
Oh. That's interesting. I thought it was twice, but it's closer to 1-1/2 times, but if you have one major and one minor repair, it costs more.
AppleCare+ covers 2 accidental-damage incidents per 12 months, so over 4 years, you could have up to 8 covered incidents, each with a deductible.
Screen or back glass damage: $29 per incident
Other accidental damage: $99 per incident
Theft or loss (if covered): $149 per incident
Let's assume:
1 minor repair (e.g., screen): $29 ($31.90 with California sales tax)
1 major repair (e.g., drop damage): $99 ($108.90 with CA sales tax)
Total repair cost: $128
Here's your cost over the four year life of that iPhone.
+------------------------+----------------+
| Item | Cost |
+------------------------+----------------+
| iPhone | $1,000 |
| Sales Tax (CA ~10%) | $100 |
| Accessories | $150 |
| Storage Upgrade | $300 |
| AppleCare+ (4 years) | $384–$552 |
| Repair Deductibles | $140 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Total Cost | $2,074–$2,242 |
| Trade-In Value | -$500 |
+------------------------+----------------+
| Net Cost Over 4 Years | $1,574–$1,742 |
+------------------------+----------------+
Over 4 years, the true cost of ownership for that iPhone, including tax, accessories, upgrades, AppleCare+ & two repairs comes out to about 1-1/2 about 1-3/4 times the original $1,000 price.
This is good news as before I made these calculations, I had thought it
would be closer to twice the price, so this is better than expected.
What would you contribute to add even more added value to the discussion?
On 08/16/2025 13:37, -hh wrote:
    | Item                 | Cost           |
    +------------------------+----------------+
    | iPhone               | $267           |
Which *new* iPhone is $267?
On 8/11/2025 3:48 PM, Marion wrote:
Thought Question: How many times do Apple owners buy each iPhone?
...
What would you contribute to add even more added value to the discussion?
In my Android experience I was buying a new phone about every other
year, with no trade-in. I don't have the numbers, but it was not cheap.
The only Android I kept longer was a Samsung, about 3 years.
When I got into Apple it was not a good experience either. I bought 2
year old models, and the cheapest I could find. Gave up on that and got
an SE2 with 256 gb. That was a good phone, kept it for 3 years and
traded it for my current 256 GB 14. The 14 is coming up on 3 years old
and I am still very happy with it.
On 8/18/25 06:45, badgolferman wrote:
On 08/16/2025 13:37, -hh wrote:
     | Item                 | Cost           |
     +------------------------+----------------+
     | iPhone               | $267           |
Which *new* iPhone is $267?
Who said it had to be nothing less than *new*?
When looking around for deals, there's many options. For example, in
the 'new' lane, I personally include open box & refurbished as well as discontinued (eg. prior year's model). Think of it as similar to car shopping by considering demos/loaners, leftovers off the lot, etc.
For a very simple example, check Apple's website for certified refurbs.
For example, despite inventory being quite thin, they nevertheless have inventory on a 128GB 14 Pro for $679 (discounted from $899).
In any event, the above purchase was for a backup phone, in case one of
our daily drivers happens to die, as it was an excellent price find and effectively costs less than buying insurance.
-hh
On 08/18/2025 08:06, -hh wrote:
On 8/18/25 06:45, badgolferman wrote:
On 08/16/2025 13:37, -hh wrote:
     | Item                 | Cost           |
     +------------------------+----------------+
     | iPhone               | $267           |
Which *new* iPhone is $267?
Who said it had to be nothing less than *new*?
When looking around for deals, there's many options. For example, in
the 'new' lane, I personally include open box & refurbished as well as
discontinued (eg. prior year's model). Think of it as similar to car
shopping by considering demos/loaners, leftovers off the lot, etc.
For a very simple example, check Apple's website for certified refurbs.
For example, despite inventory being quite thin, they nevertheless have
inventory on a 128GB 14 Pro for $679 (discounted from $899).
In any event, the above purchase was for a backup phone, in case one of
our daily drivers happens to die, as it was an excellent price find and
effectively costs less than buying insurance.
-hh
I see. So you have effectively changed the playing field to make
Arlen's numbers look bad.
I see. So you have effectively changed the playing field to make
Arlen's numbers look bad.
I notice you haven't weight in about Arlen "changing the playing field"
by counting accessories like cases and screen protectors as a part of
the cost of the iPhone...
...but of his phone.
On 08/18/2025 11:03, Alan wrote:
I see. So you have effectively changed the playing field to make
Arlen's numbers look bad.
I notice you haven't weight in about Arlen "changing the playing field"
by counting accessories like cases and screen protectors as a part of
the cost of the iPhone...
...but of his phone.
Those are accessories which many people have and are not a significant
factor in the overall cost. What hh did was substitute a used phone for
a new phone. That is not a like comparison.
On 8/15/25 06:11, Chris wrote:
Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
On 2025-08-14 20:07:31 +0000, -hh said:
On 8/14/25 14:48, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2025-08-14, Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
You Apple trolls don't understand _why_ you're forced to charge
overnight.
You're the troll here. Nobody is forced to charge overnight. You act >>>>> like there's no other way to charge, when that is very clearly not the >>>>> case.
Unfortunately, it is painfully obvious that they have no analytical
background & experience in identifying/articulating operational
requirements and deconstructing them into technical specifications.
Your troll is weak because you are a mental weakling.
He's whining because his car didn't come with floor mats! /s
-hh
With modern cars I'd be more worried about the fact that many don't
come with an actual physical key and keyholes (including the ignition)!
:-(
Or spare wheel!
Yep. There should ALWAYS be a proper, full-size spare wheel (not the
silly smaller "space-saver"). The sole reason car makers stopped putting spare wheels in was to lower the weight so they could cheat the
emissions and efficiency tests. X-(
When I got into Apple it was not a good experience either. I bought 2
year old models, and the cheapest I could find. Gave up on that and got
an SE2 with 256 gb. That was a good phone, kept it for 3 years and
traded it for my current 256 GB 14. The 14 is coming up on 3 years old
and I am still very happy with it.
Lifespan is an illustration of where 'Marion' chooses poor values.
As you illustrate, there's been a pretty significant difference.
Looking at my own anecdotal iPhone history, my running average (prior to current, which is already 3) is 5 years between replacements.
I could add in business gear, but that was replaced frequently on
contract schedule/IT mandates, not by user need. From over a dozen
years, I did have one actually fail, which was an odd one (and not while
on business travel). Of course, let's not talk about how many laptops I went through in the same time period...Lenovo swelling batteries, etc.
For a very simple example, check Apple's website for certified refurbs.
For example, despite inventory being quite thin, they nevertheless have
inventory on a 128GB 14 Pro for $679 (discounted from $899).
In any event, the above purchase was for a backup phone, in case one of
our daily drivers happens to die, as it was an excellent price find and
effectively costs less than buying insurance.
-hh
I see. So you have effectively changed the playing field
On 08/16/2025 13:37, -hh wrote:
    | Item                 | Cost           |
    +------------------------+----------------+
    | iPhone               | $267           |
Which *new* iPhone is $267?
Lifespan is an illustration of where 'Marion' chooses poor values.And of course with Android devices, most also do not include a charger, wireless earpods, or a case. Sales tax is charged on Android devices
As you illustrate, there's been a pretty significant difference.
I see. So you have effectively changed the playing field to make
Arlen's numbers look bad.
I notice you haven't weight in about Arlen "changing the playing field"
by counting accessories like cases and screen protectors as a part of
the cost of the iPhone...
...but of his phone.
Those are accessories which many people have and are not a significant
factor in the overall cost. What hh did was substitute a used phone for
a new phone. That is not a like comparison.
On 08/18/2025 08:06, -hh wrote:
On 8/18/25 06:45, badgolferman wrote:
On 08/16/2025 13:37, -hh wrote:
     | Item                 | Cost           |
     +------------------------+----------------+
     | iPhone               | $267           |
Which *new* iPhone is $267?
Who said it had to be nothing less than *new*?
When looking around for deals, there's many options. For example, in
the 'new' lane, I personally include open box & refurbished as well as
discontinued (eg. prior year's model). Think of it as similar to car
shopping by considering demos/loaners, leftovers off the lot, etc.
For a very simple example, check Apple's website for certified refurbs.
For example, despite inventory being quite thin, they nevertheless have
inventory on a 128GB 14 Pro for $679 (discounted from $899).
In any event, the above purchase was for a backup phone, in case one of
our daily drivers happens to die, as it was an excellent price find and
effectively costs less than buying insurance.
-hh
I see. So you have effectively changed the playing field to make
Arlen's numbers look bad.
On 08/18/2025 08:06, -hh wrote:
On 8/18/25 06:45, badgolferman wrote:
On 08/16/2025 13:37, -hh wrote:
     | Item                 | Cost           |
     +------------------------+----------------+
     | iPhone               | $267           |
Which *new* iPhone is $267?
Who said it had to be nothing less than *new*?
When looking around for deals, there's many options. For example, in
the 'new' lane, I personally include open box & refurbished as well as
discontinued (eg. prior year's model). Think of it as similar to car
shopping by considering demos/loaners, leftovers off the lot, etc.
For a very simple example, check Apple's website for certified refurbs.
For example, despite inventory being quite thin, they nevertheless have
inventory on a 128GB 14 Pro for $679 (discounted from $899).
In any event, the above purchase was for a backup phone, in case one of
our daily drivers happens to die, as it was an excellent price find and
effectively costs less than buying insurance.
-hh
I see. So you have effectively changed the playing field to make
Arlen's numbers look bad.
So just who's _really_ being dishonest here, hmmmm?Comparing a used iPhone to a new Android phone is pretty lame.
And sure, Apple does make high end models which can hit this price, but
did Arlen disclose that? Nope: he said "iPhone", not Pro/Max/etc.
Those are accessories which many people have and are not a significantYeah, comparing a used iPhone to a new Android phone is pretty dishonest.
factor in the overall cost. What hh did was substitute a used phone for
a new phone. That is not a like comparison.
Those are accessories which many people have and are not a significantYeah, comparing a used iPhone to a new Android phone is pretty dishonest.
factor in the overall cost. What hh did was substitute a used phone for
a new phone. That is not a like comparison.
Many of the accessories people will already have, other than perhaps the case for a new phone, but the prices on those accessories are similar
for iPhone and Android, especially now that Apple has moved to USB-C
from Lightning.
On 8/18/2025 12:45 PM, -hh wrote:
<snip>
So just who's _really_ being dishonest here, hmmmm?
Comparing a used iPhone to a new Android phone is pretty lame.
BTW there are multiple sources for _new_ iPhones at pretty low prices,
but not the latest models.
I.e. you can get a new iPhone 13 for a net cost of about $165 from Total Wireless. The phone is "free" but you need to pay for three months of service at about $165 including taxes and fees.>
Unlocked after 60 days, then take it to where-ever, the best deal right
now appears to be U.S. Mobile, where you can choose AT&T, T-Mobile, or Verizon (I suspect that no one chooses T-Mobile, since there is no off- network roaming included on any of the carriers and T-Mobile's native network is much smaller).
Verizon is trying hard to get out of the 60 day unlocking requirement.
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