From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Sorry if this is off topic.

I was running into some issues with my iPod Touch (whatever the last
model made was), so I erased it and restored my music from Music.app.

Now I'm noting some weird behaviour in that Apple Music and the iPod
don't alphabetize things the same way. For example, both Music.app and
the iPod alphabetize "Bob Dylan" as "Dylan", but Music.app alphabetizes
"Noah Gunderson" as "Gunderson" whereas the iPod alphabetizes it as "Noah".

All the fields in the "Sorting" tab have this listed as "Gunderson,
Noah". Is there some hidden field I'm not aware of?

Any help would be appreciated.

André
--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail
service.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-12-06 04:07:15 +0000, André G. Isaak said:

Sorry if this is off topic.

I was running into some issues with my iPod Touch (whatever the last
model made was), so I erased it and restored my music from Music.app.

Now I'm noting some weird behaviour in that Apple Music and the iPod
don't alphabetize things the same way. For example, both Music.app and
the iPod alphabetize "Bob Dylan" as "Dylan", but Music.app alphabetizes "Noah Gunderson" as "Gunderson" whereas the iPod alphabetizes it as
"Noah".

All the fields in the "Sorting" tab have this listed as "Gunderson,
Noah". Is there some hidden field I'm not aware of?

Any help would be appreciated.

André

I've never used the iPod nor the Music app, but try turning the name
around to see what happens: "Noah Gunderson" instead of "Gunderson,
Noah".

Perhaps each app is seeing the comma as having a different meaning -
there are various quirks between the Mac apps and the iPad / iPhone
apps today, so likely simialy differences with old iPod apps,
especially if the Mac is using a newer version.

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-12-05 22:50, Your Name wrote:

On 2025-12-06 04:07:15 +0000, André G. Isaak said:

Sorry if this is off topic.

I was running into some issues with my iPod Touch (whatever the last
model made was), so I erased it and restored my music from Music.app.

Now I'm noting some weird behaviour in that Apple Music and the iPod
don't alphabetize things the same way. For example, both Music.app and
the iPod alphabetize "Bob Dylan" as "Dylan", but Music.app
alphabetizes "Noah Gunderson" as "Gunderson" whereas the iPod
alphabetizes it as "Noah".

All the fields in the "Sorting" tab have this listed as "Gunderson,
Noah". Is there some hidden field I'm not aware of?

Any help would be appreciated.

André

I've never used the iPod nor the Music app, but try turning the name
around to see what happens: "Noah Gunderson" instead of "Gunderson, Noah".

Perhaps each app is seeing the comma as having a different meaning -
there are various quirks between the Mac apps and the iPad / iPhone apps today, so likely simialy differences with old iPod apps, especially if
the Mac is using a newer version.

I don't think this is an issue.

I've got songs whose artist in "Bob Dylan" and whose sort order is
"Dylan, Bob". These sort as "Dylan".

I've got songs whose artist is "Noah Gunderson" and whose sort order is "Gunderson, Noah". These sort as "Noah".

So I suspect there is some field that isn't immediately apparent in the
UI which is ultimately responsible for sorting. I just wish I knew what
it was and how to modify it....

André
--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail
service.

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-12-06 04:07:15 +0000, André G. Isaak said:

Sorry if this is off topic.

I was running into some issues with my iPod Touch (whatever the last
model made was), so I erased it and restored my music from Music.app.

Now I'm noting some weird behaviour in that Apple Music and the iPod
don't alphabetize things the same way. For example, both Music.app and
the iPod alphabetize "Bob Dylan" as "Dylan", but Music.app alphabetizes "Noah Gunderson" as "Gunderson" whereas the iPod alphabetizes it as
"Noah".

All the fields in the "Sorting" tab have this listed as "Gunderson,
Noah". Is there some hidden field I'm not aware of?

Any help would be appreciated.

André

Is it all songs or are you using a playlist?

Apparently there are weird issues with playlist sorting, but I'm not
sure how far back the problem existed. There are a few suggestions to
fix it at:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253185910?sortBy=rank

Even if you are not using playlists, it could be worth trying these on
the entire library (if possible).


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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Sat, 6 Dec 2025 00:39:50 -0700, André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid>
wrote:

On 2025-12-05 22:50, Your Name wrote:

On 2025-12-06 04:07:15 +0000, André G. Isaak said:

Sorry if this is off topic.

I was running into some issues with my iPod Touch (whatever the last
model made was), so I erased it and restored my music from Music.app.

Now I'm noting some weird behaviour in that Apple Music and the iPod
don't alphabetize things the same way. For example, both Music.app and
the iPod alphabetize "Bob Dylan" as "Dylan", but Music.app
alphabetizes "Noah Gunderson" as "Gunderson" whereas the iPod
alphabetizes it as "Noah".

All the fields in the "Sorting" tab have this listed as "Gunderson,
Noah". Is there some hidden field I'm not aware of?

Any help would be appreciated.

André

I've never used the iPod nor the Music app, but try turning the name
around to see what happens: "Noah Gunderson" instead of "Gunderson, Noah". >>
Perhaps each app is seeing the comma as having a different meaning -
there are various quirks between the Mac apps and the iPad / iPhone apps
today, so likely simialy differences with old iPod apps, especially if
the Mac is using a newer version.

I don't think this is an issue.

I've got songs whose artist in "Bob Dylan" and whose sort order is
"Dylan, Bob". These sort as "Dylan".

I've got songs whose artist is "Noah Gunderson" and whose sort order is >"Gunderson, Noah". These sort as "Noah".

So I suspect there is some field that isn't immediately apparent in the
UI which is ultimately responsible for sorting. I just wish I knew what
it was and how to modify it....

It's not ideal, I know, but can you manually move "Bob" into the
"Dylan" folder? *Are* there folders or is it simply a database?

Can you manually change "Bob" to "Dylan, Bob" in the metadata of the
songs? Or do you have far too many for that to be practical?

Can you decide that Life is too farking short to be bothered and just
live with this? We all live with far greater annoyances all of the
time tech-related and not? :)

Is Noah any good? Have you tried Julie Eklar?

J.

André

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Dec 5, 2025 at 11:07:15 PM EST, "André G. Isaak" <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

Sorry if this is off topic.

I was running into some issues with my iPod Touch (whatever the last
model made was), so I erased it and restored my music from Music.app.

Now I'm noting some weird behaviour in that Apple Music and the iPod
don't alphabetize things the same way. For example, both Music.app and
the iPod alphabetize "Bob Dylan" as "Dylan", but Music.app alphabetizes
"Noah Gunderson" as "Gunderson" whereas the iPod alphabetizes it as "Noah".

All the fields in the "Sorting" tab have this listed as "Gunderson,
Noah". Is there some hidden field I'm not aware of?

I have several version 7 iPods. Along with iPhones and iPads. All of my music is synced the same. All appear the same and sort the same way on each device.

Most of this stuff is controlled by the details in the MP3 files. The Title, Contributing Artist, Album Artist and Album fields must be correct. On every iDevice I have, "The Beatles" is under "B", not "T". "The whatever" is sorted by "whatever, not The". All artist names sort by first name, not last name. Bob Dylan under "B". Jimi Hendrix is under "J". This is also how they sort in iTunes on Windows. Maybe there is a way to change this, but I don't want to change it now. It has been this way for many years and I am used to it.

I don't use Apple Music on my Macs. I use iTunes on Windows. Because that's where I have the most storage and that's where all of my MP3 files are. I also have no music from Apple. All of my files are from CDs that I own, ripped to MP3 files. A few are downloads from Spotify that I have recorded and saved to MP3 files. If I like it I buy the CD and rip that to get the MUCH better sound quality.
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