• Re: A new foundation for correct reasoning +++

    From Mikko@mikko.levanto@iki.fi to comp.theory,sci.logic,sci.math on Wed Dec 3 13:17:20 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    olcott kirjoitti 2.12.2025 klo 16.07:
    On 12/2/2025 3:56 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 1.12.2025 klo 14.19:
    On 12/1/2025 4:31 AM, Mikko wrote:
    Alan Mackenzie kirjoitti 29.11.2025 klo 13.55:
    [ Followup-To: set ]

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/28/2025 4:54 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/28/2025 3:08 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    [ .... ]

    *Within A new foundation for correct reasoning*

    (a) Every element of the body of knowledge that can
          be expressed in language is entirely composed of
        (1) A finite set of atomic facts
        (2) Every expression of language that is semantically
            entailed by (1)
    (b) a formal language based on Rudolf Carnap Meaning
          Postulates combined with The Kurt Gödel definition >>>>>>>>       of the "theory of simple types"
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    History_of_type_theory#G%C3%B6del_1944
          Where every semantic meaning is fully encoded syntactically >>>>>>>>       as one fully integrated whole not needing model theory >>>>>
    We have now totally overcome Gödel Incompleteness
    and Tarski Undefinability for the entire body if
    knowledge that can be expressed in language. It
    is now a giant semantic tautology.

    You can't "overcome" these theorems, since they're not obstacles. >>>>>>> They're fundamental truths.

    I just showed the detailed steps making both of
    them impossible in the system that I just specified.
    A counter-example is categorically impossible.

    Your construction is impossible, as proven by Gödel's Incompleteness >>>>> Theorem.

    Doesn't a theory that has no theorems satisfy all above stated
    requriements?

    Every element of the body of knowledge
    is not such a formal system.

    That's right, the body of knowledge is irrelevant here.

    If we are not talking about elements of the body
    of knowledge that are missing or unknown truths
    then there is no notion of actual incompleteness
    that remains.

    The body of knowledge includes that certain quesstions have answers
    but doesn't include now what those answers are. For example, we
    know that North Sentinel Island is population but we don't know
    what language is spoken there. This and other examples show that
    the body of knowledge is incomplete.
    --
    Mikko
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.logic,sci.math on Wed Dec 3 10:13:53 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 12/3/2025 5:17 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 2.12.2025 klo 16.07:
    On 12/2/2025 3:56 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 1.12.2025 klo 14.19:
    On 12/1/2025 4:31 AM, Mikko wrote:
    Alan Mackenzie kirjoitti 29.11.2025 klo 13.55:
    [ Followup-To: set ]

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/28/2025 4:54 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/28/2025 3:08 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    [ .... ]

    *Within A new foundation for correct reasoning*

    (a) Every element of the body of knowledge that can
          be expressed in language is entirely composed of
        (1) A finite set of atomic facts
        (2) Every expression of language that is semantically >>>>>>>>>         entailed by (1)
    (b) a formal language based on Rudolf Carnap Meaning
          Postulates combined with The Kurt Gödel definition >>>>>>>>>       of the "theory of simple types"
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    History_of_type_theory#G%C3%B6del_1944
          Where every semantic meaning is fully encoded syntactically
          as one fully integrated whole not needing model theory >>>>>>
    We have now totally overcome Gödel Incompleteness
    and Tarski Undefinability for the entire body if
    knowledge that can be expressed in language. It
    is now a giant semantic tautology.

    You can't "overcome" these theorems, since they're not obstacles. >>>>>>>> They're fundamental truths.

    I just showed the detailed steps making both of
    them impossible in the system that I just specified.
    A counter-example is categorically impossible.

    Your construction is impossible, as proven by Gödel's Incompleteness >>>>>> Theorem.

    Doesn't a theory that has no theorems satisfy all above stated
    requriements?

    Every element of the body of knowledge
    is not such a formal system.

    That's right, the body of knowledge is irrelevant here.

    If we are not talking about elements of the body
    of knowledge that are missing or unknown truths
    then there is no notion of actual incompleteness
    that remains.

    The body of knowledge includes that certain quesstions have answers
    but doesn't include now what those answers are.

    Unknowns are outside of the body of knowledge.

    For example, we
    know that North Sentinel Island is population but we don't know
    what language is spoken there. This and other examples show that
    the body of knowledge is incomplete.


    If anyone anywhere knows then it is in the body of general knowledge.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning" computable.

    This required establishing a new foundation
    for correct reasoning.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mikko@mikko.levanto@iki.fi to comp.theory,sci.logic,sci.math on Thu Dec 4 11:29:19 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    olcott kirjoitti 3.12.2025 klo 18.13:
    On 12/3/2025 5:17 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 2.12.2025 klo 16.07:
    On 12/2/2025 3:56 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 1.12.2025 klo 14.19:
    On 12/1/2025 4:31 AM, Mikko wrote:
    Alan Mackenzie kirjoitti 29.11.2025 klo 13.55:
    [ Followup-To: set ]

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/28/2025 4:54 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/28/2025 3:08 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    [ .... ]

    *Within A new foundation for correct reasoning*

    (a) Every element of the body of knowledge that can
          be expressed in language is entirely composed of >>>>>>>>>>     (1) A finite set of atomic facts
        (2) Every expression of language that is semantically >>>>>>>>>>         entailed by (1)
    (b) a formal language based on Rudolf Carnap Meaning
          Postulates combined with The Kurt Gödel definition >>>>>>>>>>       of the "theory of simple types"
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    History_of_type_theory#G%C3%B6del_1944
          Where every semantic meaning is fully encoded syntactically
          as one fully integrated whole not needing model theory >>>>>>>
    We have now totally overcome Gödel Incompleteness
    and Tarski Undefinability for the entire body if
    knowledge that can be expressed in language. It
    is now a giant semantic tautology.

    You can't "overcome" these theorems, since they're not obstacles. >>>>>>>>> They're fundamental truths.

    I just showed the detailed steps making both of
    them impossible in the system that I just specified.
    A counter-example is categorically impossible.

    Your construction is impossible, as proven by Gödel's Incompleteness >>>>>>> Theorem.

    Doesn't a theory that has no theorems satisfy all above stated
    requriements?

    Every element of the body of knowledge
    is not such a formal system.

    That's right, the body of knowledge is irrelevant here.

    If we are not talking about elements of the body
    of knowledge that are missing or unknown truths
    then there is no notion of actual incompleteness
    that remains.

    The body of knowledge includes that certain quesstions have answers
    but doesn't include now what those answers are.

    Unknowns are outside of the body of knowledge.

    For example, we
    know that North Sentinel Island is population but we don't know
    what language is spoken there. This and other examples show that
    the body of knowledge is incomplete.

    If anyone anywhere knows then it is in the body of general knowledge.

    It is not general knowledge as it is not known to anybody outside
    North Sentinel Island.

    I know the color of my bedroom wall. Is that general knowledge?
    --
    Mikko
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.logic,sci.math on Thu Dec 4 08:18:23 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 12/4/2025 3:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 3.12.2025 klo 18.13:
    On 12/3/2025 5:17 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 2.12.2025 klo 16.07:
    On 12/2/2025 3:56 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 1.12.2025 klo 14.19:
    On 12/1/2025 4:31 AM, Mikko wrote:
    Alan Mackenzie kirjoitti 29.11.2025 klo 13.55:
    [ Followup-To: set ]

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/28/2025 4:54 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/28/2025 3:08 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    [ .... ]

    *Within A new foundation for correct reasoning*

    (a) Every element of the body of knowledge that can
          be expressed in language is entirely composed of >>>>>>>>>>>     (1) A finite set of atomic facts
        (2) Every expression of language that is semantically >>>>>>>>>>>         entailed by (1)
    (b) a formal language based on Rudolf Carnap Meaning
          Postulates combined with The Kurt Gödel definition >>>>>>>>>>>       of the "theory of simple types"
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    History_of_type_theory#G%C3%B6del_1944
          Where every semantic meaning is fully encoded >>>>>>>>>>> syntactically
          as one fully integrated whole not needing model theory >>>>>>>>
    We have now totally overcome Gödel Incompleteness
    and Tarski Undefinability for the entire body if
    knowledge that can be expressed in language. It
    is now a giant semantic tautology.

    You can't "overcome" these theorems, since they're not obstacles. >>>>>>>>>> They're fundamental truths.

    I just showed the detailed steps making both of
    them impossible in the system that I just specified.
    A counter-example is categorically impossible.

    Your construction is impossible, as proven by Gödel's
    Incompleteness
    Theorem.

    Doesn't a theory that has no theorems satisfy all above stated
    requriements?

    Every element of the body of knowledge
    is not such a formal system.

    That's right, the body of knowledge is irrelevant here.

    If we are not talking about elements of the body
    of knowledge that are missing or unknown truths
    then there is no notion of actual incompleteness
    that remains.

    The body of knowledge includes that certain quesstions have answers
    but doesn't include now what those answers are.

    Unknowns are outside of the body of knowledge.

    For example, we
    know that North Sentinel Island is population but we don't know
    what language is spoken there. This and other examples show that
    the body of knowledge is incomplete.

    If anyone anywhere knows then it is in the body of general knowledge.

    It is not general knowledge as it is not known to anybody outside
    North Sentinel Island.

    I know the color of my bedroom wall. Is that general knowledge?


    To simply things the body of general knowledge
    can be everything written down in any published
    book or published paper. Also anything that can
    be deduced from these sources.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning" computable.

    This required establishing a new foundation
    for correct reasoning.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mikko@mikko.levanto@iki.fi to comp.theory,sci.logic,sci.math on Fri Dec 5 11:03:50 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    olcott kirjoitti 4.12.2025 klo 16.18:
    On 12/4/2025 3:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 3.12.2025 klo 18.13:
    On 12/3/2025 5:17 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 2.12.2025 klo 16.07:
    On 12/2/2025 3:56 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 1.12.2025 klo 14.19:
    On 12/1/2025 4:31 AM, Mikko wrote:
    Alan Mackenzie kirjoitti 29.11.2025 klo 13.55:
    [ Followup-To: set ]

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/28/2025 4:54 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/28/2025 3:08 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    [ .... ]

    *Within A new foundation for correct reasoning*

    (a) Every element of the body of knowledge that can
          be expressed in language is entirely composed of >>>>>>>>>>>>     (1) A finite set of atomic facts
        (2) Every expression of language that is semantically >>>>>>>>>>>>         entailed by (1)
    (b) a formal language based on Rudolf Carnap Meaning
          Postulates combined with The Kurt Gödel definition >>>>>>>>>>>>       of the "theory of simple types"
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    History_of_type_theory#G%C3%B6del_1944
          Where every semantic meaning is fully encoded >>>>>>>>>>>> syntactically
          as one fully integrated whole not needing model theory >>>>>>>>>
    We have now totally overcome Gödel Incompleteness
    and Tarski Undefinability for the entire body if
    knowledge that can be expressed in language. It
    is now a giant semantic tautology.

    You can't "overcome" these theorems, since they're not
    obstacles.
    They're fundamental truths.

    I just showed the detailed steps making both of
    them impossible in the system that I just specified.
    A counter-example is categorically impossible.

    Your construction is impossible, as proven by Gödel's
    Incompleteness
    Theorem.

    Doesn't a theory that has no theorems satisfy all above stated >>>>>>>> requriements?

    Every element of the body of knowledge
    is not such a formal system.

    That's right, the body of knowledge is irrelevant here.

    If we are not talking about elements of the body
    of knowledge that are missing or unknown truths
    then there is no notion of actual incompleteness
    that remains.

    The body of knowledge includes that certain quesstions have answers
    but doesn't include now what those answers are.

    Unknowns are outside of the body of knowledge.

    For example, we
    know that North Sentinel Island is population but we don't know
    what language is spoken there. This and other examples show that
    the body of knowledge is incomplete.

    If anyone anywhere knows then it is in the body of general knowledge.

    It is not general knowledge as it is not known to anybody outside
    North Sentinel Island.

    I know the color of my bedroom wall. Is that general knowledge?

    To simply things the body of general knowledge
    can be everything written down in any published
    book or published paper. Also anything that can
    be deduced from these sources.

    General knowledge also includes that there are claims that might be
    deducible from published knowledge or might be not, and it is not
    yet known whether or how. Examples of such claims can be found in
    published sources.
    --
    Mikko
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.logic,sci.math on Fri Dec 5 11:31:22 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 12/5/2025 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 4.12.2025 klo 16.18:
    On 12/4/2025 3:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 3.12.2025 klo 18.13:
    On 12/3/2025 5:17 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 2.12.2025 klo 16.07:
    On 12/2/2025 3:56 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 1.12.2025 klo 14.19:
    On 12/1/2025 4:31 AM, Mikko wrote:
    Alan Mackenzie kirjoitti 29.11.2025 klo 13.55:
    [ Followup-To: set ]

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/28/2025 4:54 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/28/2025 3:08 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    [ .... ]

    *Within A new foundation for correct reasoning*

    (a) Every element of the body of knowledge that can
          be expressed in language is entirely composed of >>>>>>>>>>>>>     (1) A finite set of atomic facts
        (2) Every expression of language that is semantically >>>>>>>>>>>>>         entailed by (1)
    (b) a formal language based on Rudolf Carnap Meaning >>>>>>>>>>>>>       Postulates combined with The Kurt Gödel definition >>>>>>>>>>>>>       of the "theory of simple types"
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    History_of_type_theory#G%C3%B6del_1944
          Where every semantic meaning is fully encoded >>>>>>>>>>>>> syntactically
          as one fully integrated whole not needing model theory >>>>>>>>>>
    We have now totally overcome Gödel Incompleteness
    and Tarski Undefinability for the entire body if
    knowledge that can be expressed in language. It
    is now a giant semantic tautology.

    You can't "overcome" these theorems, since they're not >>>>>>>>>>>> obstacles.
    They're fundamental truths.

    I just showed the detailed steps making both of
    them impossible in the system that I just specified.
    A counter-example is categorically impossible.

    Your construction is impossible, as proven by Gödel's
    Incompleteness
    Theorem.

    Doesn't a theory that has no theorems satisfy all above stated >>>>>>>>> requriements?

    Every element of the body of knowledge
    is not such a formal system.

    That's right, the body of knowledge is irrelevant here.

    If we are not talking about elements of the body
    of knowledge that are missing or unknown truths
    then there is no notion of actual incompleteness
    that remains.

    The body of knowledge includes that certain quesstions have answers
    but doesn't include now what those answers are.

    Unknowns are outside of the body of knowledge.

    For example, we
    know that North Sentinel Island is population but we don't know
    what language is spoken there. This and other examples show that
    the body of knowledge is incomplete.

    If anyone anywhere knows then it is in the body of general knowledge.

    It is not general knowledge as it is not known to anybody outside
    North Sentinel Island.

    I know the color of my bedroom wall. Is that general knowledge?

    To simply things the body of general knowledge
    can be everything written down in any published
    book or published paper. Also anything that can
    be deduced from these sources.

    General knowledge also includes that there are claims that might be
    deducible from published knowledge or might be not, and it is not
    yet known whether or how. Examples of such claims can be found in
    published sources.


    Yes this is correct.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning" computable.

    This required establishing a new foundation
    for correct reasoning.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mikko@mikko.levanto@iki.fi to comp.theory,sci.logic,sci.math on Sat Dec 6 11:39:45 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    olcott kirjoitti 5.12.2025 klo 19.31:
    On 12/5/2025 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 4.12.2025 klo 16.18:
    On 12/4/2025 3:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 3.12.2025 klo 18.13:
    On 12/3/2025 5:17 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 2.12.2025 klo 16.07:
    On 12/2/2025 3:56 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 1.12.2025 klo 14.19:
    On 12/1/2025 4:31 AM, Mikko wrote:
    Alan Mackenzie kirjoitti 29.11.2025 klo 13.55:
    [ Followup-To: set ]

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/28/2025 4:54 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/28/2025 3:08 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    [ .... ]

    *Within A new foundation for correct reasoning*

    (a) Every element of the body of knowledge that can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>       be expressed in language is entirely composed of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>     (1) A finite set of atomic facts
        (2) Every expression of language that is semantically >>>>>>>>>>>>>>         entailed by (1)
    (b) a formal language based on Rudolf Carnap Meaning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>       Postulates combined with The Kurt Gödel definition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>       of the "theory of simple types"
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    History_of_type_theory#G%C3%B6del_1944
          Where every semantic meaning is fully encoded >>>>>>>>>>>>>> syntactically
          as one fully integrated whole not needing model theory

    We have now totally overcome Gödel Incompleteness >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Tarski Undefinability for the entire body if
    knowledge that can be expressed in language. It
    is now a giant semantic tautology.

    You can't "overcome" these theorems, since they're not >>>>>>>>>>>>> obstacles.
    They're fundamental truths.

    I just showed the detailed steps making both of
    them impossible in the system that I just specified.
    A counter-example is categorically impossible.

    Your construction is impossible, as proven by Gödel's
    Incompleteness
    Theorem.

    Doesn't a theory that has no theorems satisfy all above stated >>>>>>>>>> requriements?

    Every element of the body of knowledge
    is not such a formal system.

    That's right, the body of knowledge is irrelevant here.

    If we are not talking about elements of the body
    of knowledge that are missing or unknown truths
    then there is no notion of actual incompleteness
    that remains.

    The body of knowledge includes that certain quesstions have answers >>>>>> but doesn't include now what those answers are.

    Unknowns are outside of the body of knowledge.

    For example, we
    know that North Sentinel Island is population but we don't know
    what language is spoken there. This and other examples show that
    the body of knowledge is incomplete.

    If anyone anywhere knows then it is in the body of general knowledge. >>>>
    It is not general knowledge as it is not known to anybody outside
    North Sentinel Island.

    I know the color of my bedroom wall. Is that general knowledge?

    To simply things the body of general knowledge
    can be everything written down in any published
    book or published paper. Also anything that can
    be deduced from these sources.

    General knowledge also includes that there are claims that might be
    deducible from published knowledge or might be not, and it is not
    yet known whether or how. Examples of such claims can be found in
    published sources.

    Yes this is correct.

    Therefore it is not correct to say that all claims decucible from
    general knowledge are in general knoledge. The claims that are
    deducible from general knoledge but neither known to be deducible from
    the common knowledge nor ottherwise knwon are not in general knowledge.
    This is an incompleteness in general knowledge.
    --
    Mikko
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.logic,sci.math on Sat Dec 6 06:53:15 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 12/6/2025 3:39 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 5.12.2025 klo 19.31:
    On 12/5/2025 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 4.12.2025 klo 16.18:
    On 12/4/2025 3:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 3.12.2025 klo 18.13:
    On 12/3/2025 5:17 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 2.12.2025 klo 16.07:
    On 12/2/2025 3:56 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 1.12.2025 klo 14.19:
    On 12/1/2025 4:31 AM, Mikko wrote:
    Alan Mackenzie kirjoitti 29.11.2025 klo 13.55:
    [ Followup-To: set ]

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/28/2025 4:54 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/28/2025 3:08 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    [ .... ]

    *Within A new foundation for correct reasoning*

    (a) Every element of the body of knowledge that can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       be expressed in language is entirely composed of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     (1) A finite set of atomic facts
        (2) Every expression of language that is semantically >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         entailed by (1)
    (b) a formal language based on Rudolf Carnap Meaning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       Postulates combined with The Kurt Gödel definition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       of the "theory of simple types"
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    History_of_type_theory#G%C3%B6del_1944
          Where every semantic meaning is fully encoded >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> syntactically
          as one fully integrated whole not needing model theory

    We have now totally overcome Gödel Incompleteness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Tarski Undefinability for the entire body if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge that can be expressed in language. It
    is now a giant semantic tautology.

    You can't "overcome" these theorems, since they're not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstacles.
    They're fundamental truths.

    I just showed the detailed steps making both of
    them impossible in the system that I just specified. >>>>>>>>>>>>> A counter-example is categorically impossible.

    Your construction is impossible, as proven by Gödel's >>>>>>>>>>>> Incompleteness
    Theorem.

    Doesn't a theory that has no theorems satisfy all above stated >>>>>>>>>>> requriements?

    Every element of the body of knowledge
    is not such a formal system.

    That's right, the body of knowledge is irrelevant here.

    If we are not talking about elements of the body
    of knowledge that are missing or unknown truths
    then there is no notion of actual incompleteness
    that remains.

    The body of knowledge includes that certain quesstions have answers >>>>>>> but doesn't include now what those answers are.

    Unknowns are outside of the body of knowledge.

    For example, we
    know that North Sentinel Island is population but we don't know
    what language is spoken there. This and other examples show that >>>>>>> the body of knowledge is incomplete.

    If anyone anywhere knows then it is in the body of general knowledge. >>>>>
    It is not general knowledge as it is not known to anybody outside
    North Sentinel Island.

    I know the color of my bedroom wall. Is that general knowledge?

    To simply things the body of general knowledge
    can be everything written down in any published
    book or published paper. Also anything that can
    be deduced from these sources.

    General knowledge also includes that there are claims that might be
    deducible from published knowledge or might be not, and it is not
    yet known whether or how. Examples of such claims can be found in
    published sources.

    Yes this is correct.

    Therefore it is not correct to say that all claims decucible from
    general knowledge

    I never said that they were.

    are in general knoledge. The claims that are
    deducible from general knoledge but neither known to be deducible from
    the common knowledge nor ottherwise knwon are not in general knowledge.
    This is an incompleteness in general knowledge.


    Claims that can be deduced from published knowledge
    can be construed to be the body of general knowledge.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning" computable.

    This required establishing a new foundation
    for correct reasoning.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mikko@mikko.levanto@iki.fi to comp.theory,sci.logic,sci.math on Sun Dec 7 13:08:41 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    olcott kirjoitti 6.12.2025 klo 14.53:
    On 12/6/2025 3:39 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 5.12.2025 klo 19.31:
    On 12/5/2025 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 4.12.2025 klo 16.18:
    On 12/4/2025 3:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 3.12.2025 klo 18.13:
    On 12/3/2025 5:17 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 2.12.2025 klo 16.07:
    On 12/2/2025 3:56 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 1.12.2025 klo 14.19:
    On 12/1/2025 4:31 AM, Mikko wrote:
    Alan Mackenzie kirjoitti 29.11.2025 klo 13.55:
    [ Followup-To: set ]

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/28/2025 4:54 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/28/2025 3:08 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    [ .... ]

    *Within A new foundation for correct reasoning*

    (a) Every element of the body of knowledge that can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       be expressed in language is entirely composed of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     (1) A finite set of atomic facts
        (2) Every expression of language that is semantically >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         entailed by (1)
    (b) a formal language based on Rudolf Carnap Meaning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       Postulates combined with The Kurt Gödel definition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       of the "theory of simple types"
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    History_of_type_theory#G%C3%B6del_1944
          Where every semantic meaning is fully encoded >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> syntactically
          as one fully integrated whole not needing model >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory

    We have now totally overcome Gödel Incompleteness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Tarski Undefinability for the entire body if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge that can be expressed in language. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is now a giant semantic tautology.

    You can't "overcome" these theorems, since they're not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstacles.
    They're fundamental truths.

    I just showed the detailed steps making both of
    them impossible in the system that I just specified. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A counter-example is categorically impossible.

    Your construction is impossible, as proven by Gödel's >>>>>>>>>>>>> Incompleteness
    Theorem.

    Doesn't a theory that has no theorems satisfy all above stated >>>>>>>>>>>> requriements?

    Every element of the body of knowledge
    is not such a formal system.

    That's right, the body of knowledge is irrelevant here.

    If we are not talking about elements of the body
    of knowledge that are missing or unknown truths
    then there is no notion of actual incompleteness
    that remains.

    The body of knowledge includes that certain quesstions have answers >>>>>>>> but doesn't include now what those answers are.

    Unknowns are outside of the body of knowledge.

    For example, we
    know that North Sentinel Island is population but we don't know >>>>>>>> what language is spoken there. This and other examples show that >>>>>>>> the body of knowledge is incomplete.

    If anyone anywhere knows then it is in the body of general
    knowledge.

    It is not general knowledge as it is not known to anybody outside
    North Sentinel Island.

    I know the color of my bedroom wall. Is that general knowledge?

    To simply things the body of general knowledge
    can be everything written down in any published
    book or published paper. Also anything that can
    be deduced from these sources.

    General knowledge also includes that there are claims that might be
    deducible from published knowledge or might be not, and it is not
    yet known whether or how. Examples of such claims can be found in
    published sources.

    Yes this is correct.

    Therefore it is not correct to say that all claims decucible from
    general knowledge

    I never said that they were.

    Above you said that

    To simply things the body of general knowledge
    can be everything written down in any published
    book or published paper. Also anything that can
    be deduced from these sources.

    As I just inferred, it is not correct to say so.
     are in general knoledge. The claims that are
    deducible from general knoledge but neither known to be deducible from
    the common knowledge nor ottherwise knwon are not in general knowledge.
    This is an incompleteness in general knowledge.


    Claims that can be deduced from published knowledge
    can be construed to be the body of general knowledge.

    And here you say it again.
    --
    Mikko
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to sci.logic,sci.math,comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Mon Dec 8 13:56:15 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 12/7/2025 5:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 6.12.2025 klo 14.53:
    On 12/6/2025 3:39 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 5.12.2025 klo 19.31:
    On 12/5/2025 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 4.12.2025 klo 16.18:
    On 12/4/2025 3:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 3.12.2025 klo 18.13:
    On 12/3/2025 5:17 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 2.12.2025 klo 16.07:
    On 12/2/2025 3:56 AM, Mikko wrote:
    olcott kirjoitti 1.12.2025 klo 14.19:
    On 12/1/2025 4:31 AM, Mikko wrote:
    Alan Mackenzie kirjoitti 29.11.2025 klo 13.55:
    [ Followup-To: set ]

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/28/2025 4:54 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/28/2025 3:08 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    [ .... ]

    *Within A new foundation for correct reasoning* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    (a) Every element of the body of knowledge that can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       be expressed in language is entirely composed of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     (1) A finite set of atomic facts
        (2) Every expression of language that is semantically >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         entailed by (1)
    (b) a formal language based on Rudolf Carnap Meaning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       Postulates combined with The Kurt Gödel definition
          of the "theory of simple types"
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    History_of_type_theory#G%C3%B6del_1944
          Where every semantic meaning is fully encoded >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> syntactically
          as one fully integrated whole not needing model >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory

    We have now totally overcome Gödel Incompleteness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Tarski Undefinability for the entire body if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge that can be expressed in language. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is now a giant semantic tautology.

    You can't "overcome" these theorems, since they're not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obstacles.
    They're fundamental truths.

    I just showed the detailed steps making both of
    them impossible in the system that I just specified. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A counter-example is categorically impossible.

    Your construction is impossible, as proven by Gödel's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incompleteness
    Theorem.

    Doesn't a theory that has no theorems satisfy all above stated >>>>>>>>>>>>> requriements?

    Every element of the body of knowledge
    is not such a formal system.

    That's right, the body of knowledge is irrelevant here.

    If we are not talking about elements of the body
    of knowledge that are missing or unknown truths
    then there is no notion of actual incompleteness
    that remains.

    The body of knowledge includes that certain quesstions have >>>>>>>>> answers
    but doesn't include now what those answers are.

    Unknowns are outside of the body of knowledge.

    For example, we
    know that North Sentinel Island is population but we don't know >>>>>>>>> what language is spoken there. This and other examples show that >>>>>>>>> the body of knowledge is incomplete.

    If anyone anywhere knows then it is in the body of general
    knowledge.

    It is not general knowledge as it is not known to anybody outside >>>>>>> North Sentinel Island.

    I know the color of my bedroom wall. Is that general knowledge?

    To simply things the body of general knowledge
    can be everything written down in any published
    book or published paper. Also anything that can
    be deduced from these sources.

    General knowledge also includes that there are claims that might be
    deducible from published knowledge or might be not, and it is not
    yet known whether or how. Examples of such claims can be found in
    published sources.

    Yes this is correct.

    Therefore it is not correct to say that all claims decucible from
    general knowledge

    I never said that they were.

    Above you said that

    To simply things the body of general knowledge
    can be everything written down in any published
    book or published paper. Also anything that can
    be deduced from these sources.

    As I just inferred, it is not correct to say so.

    That is the same as disagreeing with arithmetic.

    Expressions of language that are defined in terms
    of other expressions of language can be encoded
    as relations between finite strings of GUIDs.

    There is no reason why relations between GUIDs
    cannot encode a finite set of different kinds of
    relations to other GUIDs and each GUID corresponds
    to one sense meaning of one word for every sense
    meaning of every word.

     are in general knoledge. The claims that are
    deducible from general knoledge but neither known to be deducible from
    the common knowledge nor ottherwise knwon are not in general knowledge.
    This is an incompleteness in general knowledge.


    Claims that can be deduced from published knowledge
    can be construed to be the body of general knowledge.

    And here you say it again.

    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning" computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2